Pensioner, 78, arrested for murder after 'stabbing burglar to death in his home'

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by slackercruster, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    In the US can you kill someone in your own home if they have trespassed with no questions asked?
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And yet I've never heard this used as an argument for the 2nd Amendment. It's always just "to fight a tyrannical government."
     
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    This 70+ year old didn't he?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  4. vis

    vis Banned

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    Well, as you can see from this story one can defend his house without any guns... And if the intruder has guns, you have no chances in any way. I was curious to see the statistics of how many attacks were done by sharks in the US. 57 cases for 2016:
    http://laguna-akul.ru/statistika/napadenie-akul-2016.html
    Not a single death. Looks like sharks can not kill as many people as the people themselves do.
     
  5. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Leaches that live off the weak because they can should be permitted to ply their trade because ? Shoot them and save untold numbers of future victims.
     
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The 'castle doctrine' is a nod to the common law precedent you brits set hundreds of years ago that 'each mans home is his castle' and entering uninvited subjected one to the laws of that 'realm' (however small it may be).
    Which we thank you for, but are dissapointed that you have so callously abandoned.

    To be fair, if they didn't want the 78 year old man to stab them in his kitchen, they shouldn't have forced him into his own kitchen. Can you really say 'they weren't asking for it'? If so, can you explain your support of such a notion?
     
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  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The article itself states that the criminal individual was not murdered. Rather he died as a result of his injuries at the hospital. Meaning the criminal individual was alive at the time when the intended victim was done defending himself. Such cannot be considered as being the death penalty.

    Beyond that matter, what exactly does the law say on the subject of victimizing someone else, such as forcefully entering a residence in order to rob the occupant? Is such actually allowed, or is it prohibited under all circumstances?
     
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  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Though not entirely legal, a short barrel shotgun is an extremely effective and easy to use defensive weapon. Not saying I have one or recommend it:rolleyes:
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    e
    Because in the UK we still live by the rule of law. Our court decides what the punishment should be. We unlike yourselves do not kill our criminals. You know nothing about what happened nor what was the financial situation of either the old man or the burglars. When we know the details we will at least know what we are talking about...but your idea even for people who do not believe in the rule of law and who believe they should shoot anyone who contravenes the law are of course also setting yourselves up for an alibi to cover your killing other choice killings of others.

    Do I have more compassion for burglars or killers. Need to see why they became that though killing a person is certainly the biggest crime you can do against them. Do I have any compassion for killers looking for a suitable candidate to kill, much less though no doubt they have issues too which has made them turn out like this.
     
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  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Why should the well being of criminally minded individuals, who made the deliberate decision to victimize others, be given any measure of consideration? The pensioner in this case reacted defensively, he did not make the deliberate and intentional decision to commit murder for the sake of ending the life of another.
     
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  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do not need to die instantaneously to have been murdered. Our police took the time last year or so to make it absolutely clear what the law was on this as people were saying 'neh neh we have to die. We cannot killl a criminal but need to let him/her/them kill us.' The Police said the law is that you can use sufficient force and as much force as is necessary to protect yourself. You do not though have the right to take revenge out on the person. That is for the court to do. We do not even know what happened. Until we know that it is very difficult to judge the situation.

    The death penalty is when someone suffers the penalty of death for their crimes. If the 78 year old deliberately killed this man because he had come into his house shoved a screw driver under his nose and either went off with his property of wanted to when the 78 was perfectly safe and he did this 'to teach him a lesson' then that is murder under British Law and he has taken it upon himself to inflict death on the criminal. He has chosen to give the criminal the penalty of death. Again though without knowing exactly what happened we cannot say. We are just making things up.
    The trial would take in all the particulars of the situation as well as the accused past when coming to a decision on sentence.
     
  12. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Fear of imminent harm, inside your home, pretty much covers it, no matter if they have a knife and you have a gun. It of course leads to all sorts of investigations, but yeah, as long as you didn't shoot them in the back.
     
  13. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Even if intruder has weapons I prefer to have one. Besides, that turns into home invasion and it never sends well for invaders.
     
  14. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    I feel sorry for the old guy. First there's the trauma of the attack and then the outcome, and then he's arrested too. As the poster says, we need more info but I wonder just how heavy-handed the cops have been.
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because we are a country that goes by the rule of law. Because we have courts which decide punishments. Because we do not kill our burglars.
    You don't know if the pensioner acted defensively.

    The police must consider he did. Otherwise or he would not have been arrested for murder.
     
  16. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    I've often heard that no good deed goes unpunished.
     
  17. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    You decide the odds where you live. You decide.

    If you don't like the odds with sharks or vibrio you don't go in or on the water.

    If you don't like the odds with criminals you move, or you arm yourself.
     
  18. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your opinion is insane. As ALWAYS. They weren't just burglars ... that is an armed home invasion! They forced him into the kitchen wielding a deadly weapon. In his own home? A screwdriver is an incredibly lethal weapon. Thugs use them even here in the US because they serve multiple purposes and because if they get searched its easier to wiggle out of.

    That comment above I put in bold is.. Just.. Haha I have no words for it.. The burglars financial condition.... Hahahahaha

    What struck me is the sheer balls on these burglars which is fully enabled by the UKs stupid laws. Even after being caught one still went up stairs to continue robbing him.

    Good news is people are rallying around the homeowner and there is a law that protects him kinda.

    UK has serious issues. Haha I love it
     
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  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was what the previous furore was in the UK. A farmer shot in the back and killed a 16 year old lad who was running away. Then too people were in an uproar about him being sent to jail for it and I think in the end he may have got his sentence reduced because of that uproar. Not sure and I would not have agreed with that. There are some people who clearly want the death penalty for burglary.
     
  20. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    As crime increases and civilization deteriorates it's likely unwise to enter anyone's camp unannounced, just as it was in the Old West.
     
  21. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Typical far left deflection above see folks. No one is advocating for shooting anyone in the back, even here in the US if you shoot someone in the back outside of your home? Your going down. Unless your a cop then they just shoot everyone
     
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  22. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now now I think we need ascertain the burglars financial condition as the Brit in the thread suggests. Perhaps ask them for a recent credit report as they force us into a room threatening to hurt us while their friends continue to rob us. They could be hungry. They were in the kitchen. He should have made them a sandwich
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  23. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    My how Britain has degraded into a total third world crap-hole. It was bad enough in 1690 when Locke published this work. Locke the conflicted philosopher, wanting to be free but he just could not shake off his mistaken believe in a monarchy. It seems this whole god-forsaken country has the same disease as Locke which has become worse over the years where now all that remains are the ignorant masses.

    However, this brings to mind a question. Why would the old man be upset about an honest robber that is not trying to make him believe the robbery is for his own good, but he has complied with the thieves that tell him it is for the common good? That is the base of the real problem.
     
  24. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I found a picture of the homeowner. He's elderly now but even sitting you can clearly see he was a powerful man when younger. Look at those hands. Gone to pot now doublefisting those pints of ale but he looks like he has plenty of guts. No pun intended.
    Yep big mistake robbers not tying him up.

    20180405_110856.png
     
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  25. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    And here we have the real problem outlined so well, a mental issue called moral relativity.

    "I've come to realize that the biggest problem anywhere in the world is that people's perceptions of reality are compulsively filtered through the screening mesh of what they want, and do not want, to be true." - Travis Walton

    Suppress the masculine side of the personality, the side that takes action and creates changes, causes to accept everything the way it is no matter how unjust it is, no matter how deplorable the conditions are or how much evil is taking place in our midst.
     

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