Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’

Discussion in 'Science' started by Patricio Da Silva, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree. The full body of claims about aliens exists across our society.

    You can't claim there is no sharing as easily as you suggest.
     
  2. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AFAIK, alien-related phenomena don't belong in the same perspective as NDEs, OBEs, and substance-induced altered states of consciousness.
     
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  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’

    No it doesn't.
     
  4. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The ball keeps bouncing back and forth. Reid supposedly said one thing to The Times, but then denies and contradicts it. However, the bounce in Bob Lazar’s direction still stands out. The Reid story from the link given in the OP:

    Harry Reid, the former Nevada senator who was instrumental in funding the original UFO program, told the Times he believes that “crashes of objects of unknown origin may have occurred and that retrieved materials should be studied.” From the article:

    “After looking into this, I came to the conclusion that there were reports— some were substantive, some not so substantive—that there were actual materials that the government and the private sector had in their possession.”

    (An earlier version of the Times article said Reid believed “crashes from other worlds” had indeed occurred, and that retrieved materials had been “studied secretly for decades, often by aerospace companies under government contracts.” The Times has corrected Reid's account, and Reid has since clarified his statements in a tweet, below. Popular Mechanics has updated this section of the article accordingly.)

    Senator Harry Reid @SenatorReid Jul 24

    I have no knowledge—and I have never suggested—the federal government or any entity has unidentified flying objects or debris from other worlds. I have consistently said we must stick to science, not fairy tales about little green men.

    Quote Tweet


    This content is imported from Twitter. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site.

    The astrophysicist Eric Davis, who consulted with the Pentagon’s original UFO program and now works for the defense contractor Aerospace Corporation, told the Times that after he examined certain materials, he came to the conclusion that “we couldn’t make [them] ourselves.” In fact, Davis briefed a Department of Defense (DOD) agency as recently as March about retrieving materials from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    To save time we can just say that the distances are too great to get a vehicle from a civilization in one star system to another star system. Common sense says that intelligent UFO's visit our planet is nonsense. People will believe what they want to believe. Lack of credible evidence doesn't seem to matter.
     
  6. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your mindset is trapped and confined to one reality exclusively. Just a little over 100 years ago hardly anyone imagined that people would someday be flying around the world in a multi-ton 747 or going to the moon. Now we know that quantum mechanics is involved in photosynthesis. Who could have told the Dogons that there is a Sirius B, yet they knew about it before the science of that time period did?

    P.S. Then what sort of nonsense was filmed by the Navy pilots in their UFO encounter?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    All I can do is deal with facts as I know them. I have no idea what Navy pilots recorded and neither do they.
     
  8. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    As Biden put it, “ We choose Truth over Facts”; never mind that without objective facts, truth is always subjective... just believe.
    One common denominator of Conspiracy theorists (and religion) is evidence comes in the form of witness testimony and not objective fact. Which by the way is the weakest evidence p, easily assailed in a court of law, but would be laughed at by those of science. To increase credibility, is to assert the testimony is from someone that can no longer be cross examined (think religious revelation rendered to the status of hearsay), or is testimony from someone having what appears to be high level credentials... as if those credentials mean a person’s testimony is now unassailable, objective fact.
    Careful about using the euphemism, ‘common sense’ many apply that euphemism to following agreement with collective dogma and not something that can be objectively verified following the scientific method.
    Is it possible that the earth is being visited by intelligent extraterrestrial entities? Anything can be postulated as possible, but is it probable?
    Among my favorite repeated themes are, an assertion that UFO related materials were not made on earth, followed by no other details. How would we know? Are the materials made from elements not found in the periodic table? If so, beyond known elements, that news would be huge and the periodic table already updated.
    Are they assumed to be materials manufactured in an unknown process. What would make that a signature of off world technology? Geez, We have in our possession weapons made from wootz crucible steel that was superior to weapon steels of the times in which it was produced. While we can analyze it’s properties, and it is made from known elements, no one has reproved the manufacturing technology even today.
    Advanced technology, are we to assume an extraterrestrial intelligence with the technology to traverse the adverse conditions of space upon reaching earth all the sudden is prone to failure and accidents? Really?
    But of course, there are the secrets of government, the cover ups of the truth from a government or governments that can’t keep secrets, unless you count the successes of concealing all of the evidence that fuel all the other secrets of conspiracy theorists like the fake moon landings, Kennedy assassination, 911, and etc. Conspiracy theories always have an expiation why evidence is being suppressed... every conspiracy theory has built in the circular reasoning of evidence suppression. And, those believing in the suppression of secrets always have no agenda that wanting to get the truth out there... how do we know? They tell us in talk show interviews, TV specials, and their exposé books.
     
  9. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    'Not made on this Earth?' That's the best description an astrophysicist could give?? No details on composition, hardness, melting points, conductivity, elasticity, etc just 'not made here'. So then, tell me exactly how did this person know the material in question was not made on Earth. How did he substantiate this claim made before an 'official' government committee?

    See that's the problem with all the 'evidence' for such claims - they completely lack any technical specifics at all, just opened ended statements allegedly made by 'experts' that support the prejudices of the person presenting them without any further substantiating details. 'This thing came from a UFO' said the scientist - supposedly. Well I guess then, if that's all it takes, if someone said it then it must be true!

    BTW a scientist told me he had discovered some rocking horse ****. Would anyone like to buy it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Common sense in this case means understanding a few realities. To travel at currently available speeds, the trip from the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, would take 30,000 years. If the civilization is located on the opposite side of the galaxy, the trip would take billions of years. If a civilization could travel very near the speed of light, the trip would only take hundreds of millions of years. The distances are simply too great. Common sense. When we encounter mysteries we need to stay on our planet to find the answers.
     
  11. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. The travel time we might estimate is a product of our current understanding of physics which always subject to revision as we learn more, though everything we know appears to suggest such a travel time as likely. But, that isn’t common sense beyond those that have some education in and understanding of the state of physics today; the use of the euphemism ‘common sense’ has been hijacked over the past couple decades to mean something nearer to ‘common myth’ , embrassed not unlike many common superstitions share by many of yesteryear ... don’t accidentally break that mirror.
    Facts rarely change people’s belief in their superstition... they may not argue the point but continue the belief as a hedge.
     
  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    They've made plenty. Some that don't occur in nature as well
     
  13. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Both arguments are sort of correct. Physicists have made/discovered 'new' transuranium elements that don't exist naturally on Earth. This doesn't means they cant exist else in the universe 'naturally'. But if they do it has to be under such extreme conditions, for such a short period of time and/or in such small quantities that they can for all intents and purposes be considered non-existent.
     
  14. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    P.S. Given the paucity of facts supporting the underlying claims made in this thread shouldn't it really be moved out of Science Forum and into the Conspiracy Forum where it really belongs.
     
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  15. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Navy incident was such big news, I don't know how you could have missed it. It caused a recent change in official policy towards UFO reporting.
     
  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't miss. I just missed the proof that it came from another star system.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    But you are disagreeing without a whit of evidence or scientific backing. In other words you are believing. Reread your last sentence above.
     
  18. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AFAIK, there was no such proof offered, although that kind of casual suggestion is not rare. The usual, more sensible report is that the target craft was observed and filmed as it demonstrated performance capabilities not normally possible in our world, hence people's tendency to cite the "other-worldly" nature of the phenomenon.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt that it is a mystery. No argument there.
     
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Not at first, and that may be due to what happened when they didn't.

    The first Roswell reports said they HAD found a true extraterrestrial spaceship and had solid descriptions from Air Force Personnel. The materials they had found were going to be turned over very quickly. They were very excited, this was First Contact; science fiction coming true, the biggest story of all time

    But then they found out what they had. It wasn't a "weather balloon" but an ultra top secret very high altitude balloon they were using to secretly monitor Soviet atom bomb testing. Now we couldn't let the Soviets know or even suspect we had something like this, or they would employ countermeasures and we wouldn't know what we needed to anymore.

    So WE covered up the incident, we acted like "well we found a spaceship but uh, no we didn't" and then when we said what we had really done some years later, nobody believed us, in fact, they thought THAT was part of the coverup. The lie became the truth and vice versa, and it's been that way ever since.

    Or maybe they really DO have Spaceships, and THIS story IS part of the cover-up, just like they all say.

    We will REALLY never know at this point. Cquzellx 5 from Tau Ceti could come down and explain the whole thing on 60 Minutes one Sunday and nobody would believe him either.
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ufo Crash at Roswell (Randal & Schmitt ) is the definitive book on Roswell, backed by documents and testimonies. Also, the majestic documents, www.majesticdocuments.com
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe this guy is a crackerjack astrophysicist but not all that great as a materials engineer.

    The Bell Curve is what you get when you have a Nobel Prize-winning solid-state chemist write a book on races and ethnicism. Read View From A Height by Isaac Asimov; it doesn't address this problem directly but illustrates better than nearly anything else I know why we should be skeptical when people talk out of their specialty, no matter HOW smart they are within it.
     
  23. WestFork

    WestFork Well-Known Member

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    The Roswell incident doesn’t fit the prevailing narrative. Most eyewitness reports describe UFOs as behaving in ways that defy all known laws of physics. A UFO that crashes is subject to at least one of those laws.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're making a leap of logic.

    I'll let you think about it.
     
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Overly wordy but it certainly sums it up.
     

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