Petition to ban Trump from meeting the queen gathers a million signatures

Do we have democracies? hmm we have the pretence of democracies. The illusion of freedom. Which is shattered every time we try and practise it.

 

" its the states not the people who elect the president. We are not a democracy."
No. Clearly you are not a democracy. I think someone needs to tell your leaders- they've been on a mission from God to spread democracy around the world for a very long time and they have no firsthand experience of it.

"The founders were brilliant. If only we had such men today." I honestly believe your founders would be horrified that not only was democracy never achieved in the United States of America, but citizens such as yourselves are proud of the fact.

 

I don't know what Theresa May was thinking, inviting Trump to stay with the queen. I think Trump should stay with Theresa May if she wants him to visit so badly.... May is rubbing quite a number of people the wrong way recently, Angela Merkel the latest

I'm also sure the corgis will be terrified of Donald's hair

 

Lol! You're welcome.

 

We don't have much opportunity to practise. You can vote for economic Neoliberal Thing One or economic Neoliberal Thing Two. You have the choice between divisive conservative social identity politics, or divisive liberal social identity politics. And regardless of who you vote for, global corporate capitalism wins.

Mind you, it doesn't have to be this way, but while ever our politicians come from the same class as the capitalists, I can't see it changing.

Here's a link for you. You may already be familiar with this study. A study carried out here in Australia or in the UK would have the same results.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

 

You seem to be reading the posts outlining the system in the USA but don't seem to be thinking it through. It is called the UNITED States for a reason. The States are united but, in order to unite these states, they had to have certain rights. Among these rights was the right to elect their common leader, the President. They achieved this delicate balance through the Electoral College, which meant that each state would get representatives to vote the will of the people of that state, based on their population. Thus a more heavily populated state, like California, would get more representatives than, say, Wyoming.

The Senate is designed wherein each State, regardless of population, gets two senators. Congress on the other hand, is based on population.

This very satisfactory system has also proven to be very effective and has resulted in one of the longest continuing democracies in the world. People may complain after they lose an election, as you see now, but no one who understands the system would ever want it changed. It works very well.

The idea that you can only have democracy under a parliamentary system is just wrong. Each democracy has its own way of doing things and, in the US, the people can change the system if they choose. That the American people are happy the way it is, and that many people try to enter the US and live under this system, should put your mind to rest.

 

No need for this concern in the US. Since WWII Obama, Clinton, Ford, Reagan, Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Eisenhower and Truman all came from a range of modest backgrounds. Only Kennedy and Bush Sr. and Jr. can be said to have come from power and wealth.

 

And Trump. And I'm not sure anyone with an ivy-league education can lay claim to a modest background. Not sure anyone financed by PACs can claim a modest background, either.

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How do you feel about American voter disenfranchisement? Does that work well, too?

 

Thank you for the link very informative.

Do you believe Donald Trump should be banned from the United Kingdom?

Should the west practice what we preach.

 

I could have included Trump but his father was a millionaire. Not rich and a self made man but not terribly poor either. PACs have nothing to do with humble beginnings. Many of modest backgrounds can also attain an Ivy League education. BHO is a case in point.

Can you offer some examples and be more specific?

 

Would banning Trump be democratic? Or would it be authoritarian?
I think it would be authoritarian. He's the democratically elected US President, after all, for better or worse. I think we should practice what we preach and banning one country's democratically elected leader in the name of democracy would be the opposite of that.

I also believe diplomatic channels must always remain open. A quick look around the world will show you what happens when diplomatic channels are wilfully closed. A guy called Qaddafi was sodomised by a knife live to air as a result.

Does that mean the petition should never have been started? Certainly not! The petition is an exercise in democratic free speech.

The Queen can refuse to receive Mr Trump, but it's her decision to make.

The British press can also refuse to cover a UK visit by Mr Trump. More importantly, the UK public can boycott any coverage.

 

The UK did ban elected politician Geert Wilders, though he was later allowed in. But it demonstrates how sensitive these people have become.

 

I pick Authoritarian.

I want Trump banned not for politics or dreams of Democracy. But to cause merry hell with Trump Supporters who lashed out at the UK over this petition.

This is not about sensitivity. Mr Fred. This is sending a message to Americans. Learn respect and Trump can see the Queen.

 

Here's a very quick link to a Washington Post article on voter disenfranchisement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-in-american-politics/?utm_term=.eb9486ea1154
And then of course convicted felons are automatically disenfranchised, regardless of what they were convicted of.
I'd post more links but I'm sure you're being disingenuous. If not, you should google it. As the Washington Post article shows, the US has been disenfranchising voters for quite a long time. Here's another link from ,I believe, the University of Michigan on US voter disenfranchisement from 1880 to 1965.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...KZMthMGJR9P3zK1ug&sig2=sjVrDsCFkrE2QXYBZ6OQLw

 

I'm very familiar with this history, as are most people interested in the subject, but your response suggested there was something like this going on today. Why did you mention 'disenfranchisement' at all if you were talking of historical events? We could say the same about many countries, including yours.

 

The Queen is incapable of drawing up her own guest list, is she?
"Let's see now ..... shall we seat D. Trump opposite N. Farage - or to his right?"

 

The Washington Post article also talks about the disenfranchisement that occured last year- in the last US Presidential election. I appreciate it was a few months ago now, but it's hardly ancient history.

And Australia has compulsory voting. Many of us wish we were disenfranchised, hell, when there's nobody worth voting for we disenfranchise ourselves, then we have to pay a fine.

 

Banning Trump is not just about this petition.

The UK government wanted Trump banned before the American Election, over the media hysteria with sexual misconduct. Now Theresa May and Boris Johnson have changed their minds. But the liberals haven't. They been whipped up into frenzy for months. Further chaos with a online petition, making the liberals berserk.

But for me. This doesn't matter. This is about teaching respect to pitch fork waving Trump supporters chewing grass on whatever farms they typing from.

 

Again you seem clueless on how our system works here. NY has far more representation in our government then Wyoming does. NY has 27 congressmen while Wyoming has 1 and California has 53 giving it the most. The EC only is used for the presidential election. Its part of the system of checks and balances our founders put in the constitution and its worked fine all these years

 

We are not a democracy and unfortunately for democrats we practice republican ideals

Its the left that stifles free speech. Its only free if they like it

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We never pretended to be a democracy we never were a democracy

 

How many were disenfranchised by having their vote cancelled by illegal votes ? We will have to wait to find out.

 

Then point out any example of this 'disenfranchisement' when you make the claim rather then offering a newspaper article regarding historical events some time later. Is it the policy of not allowing criminals to vote that concerns you most?

So Australians don't have the right not to vote. Perhaps you should express your concerns in that direction then, rather than worrying about the American political system.

You could have familiarized yourself with the US electoral laws before you even entered the debate, but foreigners everywhere feel they they are experts on the USA and what goes on inside it despite never having spent any time in the country at all.

 

So it was with Brexit and Great Britains leaving the European Union,
so too it is in the case of one President Trump visting Great Britain.
Signature upon signature,President Trump was cordially invited by the
Queen,her Royal Majesty,herself.
Only her invitation was given to and expressed via Great Britains PM
May,or standing leader of the British nation,herself.

 

Britain's Queen has always been known for having class. This is less true of her subjects.

 

That isn't good enough. I say, don't let any Americans in Great Britain, and don't do business with those wrong-thinking Americans either. That will teach them!