Pets: The Forgetten Victims

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by Starjet, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    They may not say they're choosing homelessness, but there are a minority of single people who will not stay indoors even if they are provided with a private space that includes secure storage for their personal property and a place for their pets.

    I don't like forcing people, for example, to choose mass shelters that provide little privacy, compromised safety, no place to store personal items, or allow people to keep their pets. People choosing not to live in those circumstances are not, IMO, opting to be homeless.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    If you abuse dangerous addictive substances, you don't own you life. The substance owns it.
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1000%
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, such devils make you accept the drugs. You're powerless to resist.
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yet people who are GENUINELY poor (like, dirt poor) in the Third World do not turn to drugs. Hmmm....
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Of course they don't. They're big babies. They F over their lives, then complain about the result, hoping someone else will fix it for them.

    Are you seriously this naive?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  7. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The shelters are unpopular because of theft and crime and bedbugs. But that's a different story.
     
  8. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Free will, non-existent? The inanimate decides for the animate? The non-conscious rules the conscious? Perhaps in the "Bizzaro" comic strip.

    Ayn Rand--"Because man has free will, no human choice—and no phenomenon which is a product of human choice—is metaphysically necessary. In regard to any man-made fact, it is valid to claim that man has chosen thus, but it was not inherent in the nature of existence for him to have done so: he could have chosen otherwise."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/free_will.html

    In other words, whatever lie a soul tells itself, whatever point in life it reaches, whatever state of being it is in, drugs didn't put that soul there, its choices did.

    Case in point, mine: Broke my back last year, had surgery, and was prescribed morphine. After 9 months, my surgeon informed me that my back was sufficiently healed to stop using morphine for pain and to start using ibuprofen. I stopped. Were there times I had the feeling to use? Sure. What stopped me? Understanding rationally the risk of damage to my well being vs the momentary relief from pain. In other words I choose reason to understand reality.

    If the soul chooses to abandon reason and reality, it will soon learn the consequences--but it will never learn if others offer it the crutch of non-responsibility, i.e., it's not your fault, it's the drug's.

    Furthermore, no soul has the moral right to choose to abandon reason and reality and then claim "it's not my fault because I'm human."

    So again I state: Its my life whatever I choose it to be, and how I choose to live it. And whether I decide to use drugs or not to use drugs, that is not anyone's damn business but my own,
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    They're unpopular for other reasons I suggested, too.
     
  10. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, but if you overdose don't go to a public hospital and have taxpayers pay for your medical care. Just die slowly at home.
     
  11. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    apparently the list of things conservatives think you should be responsible for has now expanded to include "making sure your doctors aren't surreptitiously poisoning you" and i'm just trying to imagine how you function in society
     
  12. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL--I may go to a public hospital and get some of money back the government stole from me. (Paid taxes since 1969) Or I may go to the VA to recover earnings stolen from me by neighbors under the banner of altruism. (USMC--1969-1971)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  13. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Its a medicinal drug, at least the prescription medication, to get mine from my new doctor I needed a psychological evaluation for possible abuse and other issues get cleared and then could get prescription narcotics which I use in small doses to supplement Lyrica my main pain medication which isn't a narcotic. Its a matter of being a responsible pain patient and having a decent relationship with a pain specialist MD. However the government witch hunts are getting pain patients into a position we are not getting needed medications to alleviate pain. I've taken Oxycodone for three years and am hardly an addict I take one at night to help me sleep, maybe another for bad pain if its there but not all the time and then as needed to counter elevated pain for a longer period of time. In 5mg doses. I would say its bad medical providers and insurance companies that hurt patients its cheaper and easier to give pills, Lyrica in my dosing costs retail nearly $800 a month and Oxycodone in my current use $50 a month and they want my MD to give me the latter pills if they upped it to 10mg four times a day it would do the same thing and cost $150 but the risk of addiction would be higher. And if my heart wasn't in the best shape they would do procedures on me but they can't and the insurance might not pay for those. I'm a low demand pain patients others are far worse off and for them they might need ample opiates what about them?

    If cut off with a horrible back and a not so good heart one might go to street drugs since it would be easier and likely necessary if cut off from opiates.
     
  14. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    And the nitwits who consume the inanimate substances need accept no more responsibility for their actions than a President Obama or Sen. Harry Reid. They are innocent victims of the government. I think all drugs currently illegal should be legalized and we should do absolutely nothing to save those who overdose. Naloxone has saved some junkies repeatedly.
     
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no moral justification for the illegalization of drugs. My life is mine to live not God's to command, not society's to control, and not the governments to rule and rob. Men have died so that I may live free; it sickens me that my neighbors find their lives so empty they need the government's gun to force me to live as they wish I live. To their demands, I say, quoting General Stark of the Revolutionary War, "Live free or die".
     
  16. BahamaBob

    BahamaBob Banned

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    An interesting thread with a lot of opinions so I'll throw mine in. I know a guy who wanted to know what it was like to live on the street so he threw his wallet in a drawer and had his wife drop him off to live on the street for a month. His observations were an eye opener to me. Firstly, most street people avoid shelters because they will not allow drugs or alcohol. Second, nearly everyone he met had drugs and a bottle in their pocket. Third, food and clothing was easy to obtain. Several restaurants gave free meals to the street people and there are numerous charities that have clothing for the taking. He noted many homeless men got monthly checks from the government. When they got these checks they lived in hotels with hookers until the money was gone. He found he could make as much as $100 an hour by begging. Most would beg until they got enough to get hammered on drug or alcohol then they partied until they passed out. He also noted that street people took care of each other. They warned him about where the "crazies" and "thugs" hung out and who to avoid.

    His analysis was that for most street people it was a chosen lifestyle. They did not have any ambitions beyond staying high and being left alone. The streets met all their needs and they were happy with their lives. The reason there is little success in dragging these people out of the gutter is because they chose to live this way.
     
  17. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Of course, children, pets, elderly parents all thrive under the care of a junkie.
     
  18. BahamaBob

    BahamaBob Banned

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    I personally think some drugs should be legal. I think pot should be legal. I think it is less harmful than alcohol and not addictive for most people. However, if you think all drugs should be handled the same, you are wrong. Not all people are aware enough or mature enough to know what they are getting into. If you would like to see the effects volunteer to help at a dental clinic. You will see what meth can do to you. You will see 30 year olds who look 60. You will see how meth has destroyed their teeth and internal organs. Opiates are the same. Thousands of people are dying and ruining their lives due to these drugs. It is mostly due to ignorance and lack of control. They start to get a high or control a pain and can't stop. Addiction rates are high. Crack and some other drugs fall into his category as well. Anything this destructive needs to be strongly discouraged. Criminalization and education are the best methods of achieving this.
     
  19. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And your point is?
     
  20. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What another human does with its life is not your business. To point a gun at an individual’s head to force them to live their life the way you see fit because you know better is to confess you have the soul of tyrant. Nothing in this universe makes the initiation of force a moral act.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  21. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    I used to share that view. But these laws were not passed by Hitler or Stalin. And I think a society is within its rights, and wise, to say no to drug use within its ranks, ESPECIALLY meth.
     
  22. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have every right to think that; you have no right to put a gun to my head to force me to live as you dictate. And only the societies of a Hilter or Stalin possess that power; a free society does not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could argue that there are many products and activities that cause some humans harm, skiing, roller skating, sky diving, snow mobiling, music, practicing religion, etc.; peanuts, milk, knives, axes, baseballs, the Bible, etc, but I won’t because it’s irrelevant to my point. My arguement is: What the gives you the right to point a gun at my head to force me to live my life according to your values? And my answer is nothing. And those who think they do, or society does, or my neighbors do, or God does, are confessing to the world they have little egos with the souls of tyrants.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  24. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, by that logic, no laws are valid. And the anarchist and libertarian are sympathetic to that view. I myself was a card carrying libertarian at one point. No longer.

    Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the meth culture. It's really unbelievable, especially out in the rural areas of America. I don't know about the "right," but I would say that I and my neighbors may legitimately combine to do everything possible to stop you from destroying yourself and your family. Anyway we won't "put a gun to your head", but we will confiscate your meth (Do you dispute this, by the way?), pay for your detox, and take you out of the environment, forcibly if necessary, that holds you as a prisoner to your vice. If that makes me Hitler, I think your definition of tyranny is too flexible.
     
  25. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The proper function of government is to protect the rights the individual. The only way to violate those rights is the initiation of force. Drug laws, regulation of the free market, public education, etc, they do just that. Live free or die. BTW: I am neither an anarchist or a libertarian; I’m an Objectivist.
     

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