Points to Ponder

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Wyrd of Gawd, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible starts off with an act of sacrifice that was rejected, leading to murder. It ends with a human sacrifice that was supposed to end future human sacrifices. In between there are numerous stories about assorted sacrifices, ranging from the simple to the complex.

    Cain and Abel's simple sacrifices of plants and animals didn't seem to have any ulterior motives, except to offer a token of their labors to the God character. Cain's plant offering was rejected in favor of Abel's animal offering. It's easy to see why Cain got ticked off since he had been doing a lot of sweating doing hard manual labor growing his crops while all Abel did was slaughter a goat or a sheep. So Cain killed Abel in a fit of jealousy.

    By the time Jesus becomes the ultimate human sacrifice he's telling people that they have to eat his flesh and drink his blood if they wanted to have eternal life. Most of his listeners thought that he was wacko and kicked him to the curb. But he did introduce a new sacrifice ritual in which the individual could put all of his cash into the temple collection basket as a sign of his faith. Of course Jesus didn't put any of his cash into the collection basket but he did think it was a good idea for other people to do it.

    When you consider the various sacrifice rituals, such as David collecting enemy foreskins so that he could get laid, which do you consider to be the most effective in showing one's faith and obedience to the God character? Offer animals, plants, human sacrifices, money?

    Hopefully I won't have to start a new thread for every point and we will be able to roll from one item to another, since they are all related, similar to Mitt Ryan's thread. So nothing should be off topic as long as the comment addresses a religious issue.

    As it says in Titus 1:14 (CEV) = "Don’t pay any attention to any of those senseless Jewish stories and human commands. These are made up by people who won’t obey the truth."
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus 1:14&version=CEB;NLT;CEV;CJB;NKJV
     
    FreeWare and (deleted member) like this.
  2. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have to sacrifice laying in bed another three hours to getting up and facing the day; every day!!!

    GOD.
     
  3. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    The story compares well with the science today, which recognizes that two different species in the line of man's evolution did occur and have battles with one another, killing off into extinction the carnivorous species as described below:


    Gen. 4:2 And she, (as a line of human ascent), again (evolved another new sub-species), bare his brother, Abel, (Australopithecus anamensis).
    And Abel (was carnivorous,) was a keeper of sheep, but Cain (Ardipithecus ramidus, a vegetarian), was a tiller of the ground.

    Gen. 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain, (Ardipithecus ramidus, a vegetarian), brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD, (which is the ever unfolding almighty Reality within which all men are both trapped and nurtured).

    Gen. 4:4 And Abel, (Australopithecus anamensis, was carnivorous), he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD, (Father Nature, our Reality), had respect, (in regard to the evolutionary value of a high protein diet), unto Abel, (Australopithecus anamnesis), and to his offering:

    Gen. 4:5 But unto Cain, (Ardipithecus ramidus was vegetarian), and to his offering, (as concerning the nutritional value to brain metabolism), he, (Father Nature, our Reality), had not respect, (in regard to the demands of the expanding mental abilities of evolving man).
    And Cain, (Ardipithecus ramidus), was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
     
  4. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That interpretation might work if you're writing a sci-fi movie.

    The Cain and Abel sacrifices were just simple acts of thanks for the success of their labors. They didn't really expect anything in return. Cain did blow a gasket when his sacrifice wasn't accepted.

    The crazy old coot Abraham's sacrifices were a different matter. He had to fork over 10 percent of his stolen goods for safe passage through the Salem king's territory.

    Once Melchizedek had the crazy old coot on the hook he got Abraham to go so far as to sacrifice Isaac in exchange for his own personal enrichment. In effect Abraham sold his "soul" (if he had one) to the devil to realize his own greedy desires. At that point the story changes gears and Isaac was saved and ended up a despicable man just like dear old dad.
     
  5. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Sure, we can ignore science and read the bible as if it is just crap of no importance.

    But we can also insist that the bible make sense in accord with the facts we now know.
    Once we do this, your ONLY response is to ridicule that serious taking on of the Bible, because you started off insisting that scripture was crap.

    This tells you more about you than the bible, though.
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Titus 1:14 says that people shouldn't believe Jewish myths. Since the Bible is full of such myths why should anyone believe them?

    Compare Abraham's selfish sacrifices with the apparent altruistic one of Jesus. Abraham thought that he could gain fame and fortune by sacrificing his son. He didn't volunteer to sacrifice himself so that others could benefit from his sacrifice. However, Jesus did just that. Supposedly he died for people's sins. However, since everyone seems to be just as sinful as people in the past were it seems to have been an empty gesture on his part.

    Both Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac and Jesus' own human sacrifice go against the teaching in the Bible about how evil people were for sacrificing their children. Such sacrifices also go against the idea that each person is responsible for his own sins and no one else's. So why would God sacrifice his son Jesus when the Bible states that parents who sacrifice their kids are evil?
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did a lot of praying. Why did he have to pray if he was God himself? Who was he praying to? What was he praying for? After all, he said that if a person believed in him and asked for something that he, Jesus, would give it to him. So why couldn't he answer his own prayers? And why did he have to ask himself for anything anyway if he created the universe?
     
  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible states that no one has seen God (1 John 4:12) yet it contains a lot of God's dialog. So how did the writers get God's speeches word for word when they never saw him? Were they dreaming? Did they hear his voice while they were looking at sheep and goats? Did they talk to him on the phone? Or did they just pull it out of their butts?

    Jesus was supposed to have been God so if no one has ever seen God how did they see Jesus? If they saw Jesus then they saw God since Jesus was supposed to have been God.
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I heard about a needy woman who was panhandling at a Catholic church. The members going past her were somewhat annoyed and they told the priest about it. He told them that he was unaware of the situation and ratted the woman out to the cops.

    I think that this is an interesting issue because Jesus made a lot of statements about helping the poor. http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_giving/mt05_41.html

    Of course the Bible has a number of passages about why you shouldn't help the poor.

    It just seems hilarious and pathetic that any church would rat out someone asking for financial help outside of the church doors. After all, it could be Jesus in disguise testing people to see if he's going to have to kick their behinds into the lake of fire because they ignored Matthew 25:34-46.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was always talking about how his angels were going to throw people into the lake of fire. He told his listeners that they should be loving and forgiving but he always took a hard line against people who ticked him off. If he had the power to forgive people their sins why was he so intolerant of the very people who needed real forgiveness?
     
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people believe in Biblical prophecies. They also believed that the world would end on a certain date but of course it didn't. I wonder why they believed such things when Sodom hasn't been rebuilt to its former glory? How can the world end before that's done?
     
  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    In 1 Timothy chapter 6 Paul is giving Timothy a pep talk about keeping the faith. In verses 15-16 he claims that no one has seen God but that God is the only entity that is immortal. And he also claims that God lives in a bright light. How did he reach those conclusions?
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    this is a ponder-worthy point (or points)!

    my money is that last option, of course, but you do wonder how it is that those who believe this stuff explain it to themselves. my guess is that they don't. there's probably a handy 'thought stopper' implanted somewhere which lets them JUST fondle the slippery 'inspired by god' idea - but not progress beyond that. I'd wager few have actually sat down and thought about the mechanics of such a thing, nor the fact that inspiration, no matter the source (the muse is personal and ever changing, and cares not what we call it), is as common as dog dirt.

    I could write a best seller tomorrow (in my dreams) and say it was inspired by Thor .... or Benicio del Toro.
     
  16. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Pauls ministry was well after the death of Jesus. Jesus stated that he would send a comforter (the Holy Spirit). Therefore, Paul within all likelihood received his information from the Holy Spirit... providing to him the necessary information that would allow Paul to write the things that he wrote.
     
  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Did you read about the 25 year-old woman driver who said “God told her he would take it from here.” http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/...ked-jesus-to-take-the-wheel-hit-motorcyclist/

    The dummy ran over a motorcyclist. That's what happens when you listen to imaginary creatures.

    BTW, Paul was preaching about Jesus within 10 minutes after Jesus supposedly died. He was the first to write about him and he created the Christian religion and rituals. But he made it all up out of thin air. The guy was as nutty as 100 crazy people.
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mushrooms?
     
  19. Finley99

    Finley99 New Member

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    Like I've posted on dozens of religious forums since I got my first computer in 1994 just after I retired........I have a lot of trouble believing a massive fabrication arranged by primitive mankind with a developing imagination. I don't want to pattern my life after some scheme laid down by ancient sheepherders who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat. People who schit on the ground and wiped on their hands and were afraid of the dark just don't cut it with me especially when their promise is something which requires my money and will only come to pass after I'm dead. I'm funny that way.

    PT Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute."
     
  20. Toefoot

    Toefoot Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is someone forcing you? I am not a religious person but I can not understand how frail people are when it comes to this subject of god or church.

     
  21. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Your interpretation is fine for you, because you accept scripture and have seen this story as a silly little build up to the final conclusion, that Christ is God, and represents Truth as the saving power Reality has supplied us with.

    But for people who have not accepted scripture, and see this story as a silly tale, what I am telling you here, demonstrates how scientifically correct the statement actually were.
     
  22. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    There are NO myths in the Bible, and Titus was not referring to scripture, but to traditions or rituals set up by Jews over the years, and in other writings.

    Gen 22 was a prophecy.
    It predicted the sacrifice of jesus, and the salvation of the resurrection which was to come.

    Then it went on to predict the holocaust upon the mature sheep, the Ram, which represented the Jews:

    Gen. 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him, (an uncastrated male sheep), a “ram,” (also, figuratively, [ayil: the political chiefs]; symbolic of the European Jewish rabbi), caught in a thicket (of the Nazi persecution), by his horns, (or, his power: [symbolic Dictionary]):
    and Abraham, (in analogy to God), went and took, (in place of the lamb of his only son, Isaac), the “ram, ” (the Jewish people and leadership in Europe of the 20th century to come), and offered him, (as a Burnt Offering, the sin offering, the Jewish people themselves: [Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Israel is My son, my first born.’”]), up (in holocaust) for a burnt offering (in the crematoriums of WWII, the Burnt Offering of Israel, the chosen son of God:) in the stead of (Isaac), his (only) son, (in analogy, as was Christ offered for their salvation).


    Exodus 4:22
    Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
     
  23. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Yes, jesus prayed to God, which is Reality that unfolds second by second.
    He prayed for his daily bread and such.

    But he also said he, himself, represent the idea we call Truth: "I am the Truth,... and the way and the life"... (John 14:6)

    "Truth" is the image of God, (Gen 1:26), or the same thing as Reality for us.
    So we can do as Rev Martin Luther King suggested, i.e.; rely upon Truth as the way and the life into our future.
     
  24. Finley99

    Finley99 New Member

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    I was brainwashed by my maternal grandmother and my elementary school teachers beginning when I was about five years old. It took me till I was sixty years old to finally relax and reveal my true feelings about that nonsense. I'm eighty now so for the last twenty years I have at least felt like I wasn't lying to anyone....especially my family.

    Kinda like my politics. I voted Republican for the first 30 years of my adult life. After Reagan I saw that the party had evolved into the party of the rich and corporations. I guess I'm just a little slow to catch on.
     
  25. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    God speaks to us the same way that our Libido or our Ego might.
    Subconsciously we have interactions with the genetically reproduced Unconscious mind which does talk to us subliminally.

    It was the source of the flowing Old Testament writings, too.
    Writers from different generations continued the same stories and ideas as had the other prophets.

    The recent publication, "Subliminal," explains the science of this idea.

    [​IMG]
     

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