Pope Francis Reportedly Calls For ‘Civil Union Law’ For Same-Sex Couples, A Break From Catholic....

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Space_Time, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely no justification for suggesting that the LGBTQ community must face discimination at the hands of state and federal law.

    In fact, you keep bringing up Jesus, but I see no evidence in the Bible that Jesus would suggest that you discriminate against individuals based on their sexual orientation.

    Jesus helped people. He did not suggest discimination as some sort of religious tool.


    Besides, not everybody shares your religious views. The simple fact that YOU believe the way you do is not justification for deciding that the state should use the power of law to enforce your version of religion on other people.
     
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  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The hubris I see is you seeming to think that you are so gosh darn right that our LAWS should require people to follow your religion.
     
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  3. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    God gave humans the ability to exercise free will
     
  4. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    You’re the one demanding Christianity changes to fit your values.
     
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  5. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course people shouldn't be discriminated against for any reason. No one is in the position to judge another since we're all sinners. Anyway I don't believe anyone should impose anything on others, and that includes proselytizing homosexuality through gay parades, or persecuting bakers for not wanting to write something on a cake. Wouldn't that be taking away the rights of others?

    This nations laws, and almost all the humane laws in the world are based on Christianity, so discrimination against recognized sins is something that should be expected. The best thing of course is not to flaunt them. As for me, I don't blame homosexuals, I consider them victims of the sick society we live in.

    Anyway homosexuals should have the same legal protection as everyone else. There is no reason for them not to.
     
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  6. Gentle- Giant

    Gentle- Giant Well-Known Member

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    Now if we can just get them to allow their clergy to marry.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our constitutional rights are not based in the Bible. The Bible says nothing about rights - the Bible is about duty. It's about the golden rule of behavior toward others, not about the right of others to that treatment. It's about Matthew 25, which implies we must seek out and help those in need - but doesn't say that those in our prisons, our hospitals, or in poverty have rights.

    Further, we don't have laws that are based on sin. There are no laws on sloth, adultry, covetousness, etc. Half the 10C have no laws, and those that do have fundamental justification that is not based in religion. Cases where the jusification has been limited to sin, have lost on the grounds that being sin isn't enough - cases such as abortion, marriage, sodomy, etc.

    Your last sentence sounds great!

    However, I don't see you following through by calling for LGBTQ citizens to be granted equality wrt employment law, public accommodation law, healthcare law, marriage law, fair housing law, etc.

    In fact, you suggest that those of your beliefs SHOULD be allowed to discriminate even when they are operating under state license.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As Steve Martin said,
    Agreed!

    He just plays jokes on the homos. They are attracted sexually to the same sex. That attraction is natural to them. A female attracted me early on and.it felt natural. I didn't.ever contemplate being attracted to a male. I didn't choose to be attracted to females..
     
  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My values center around the Wisden of the Golden Rule. So my values are drawn from Christianity even as I am.not a Christian but agnostic.

    What am I demanding to be changed?

    Your spin is just too much!!! Lol
     
  10. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Can an atheist still identify as Jewish? That is a genuine question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  11. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course. Being Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion, but even in the religious sense there is a wide variety of belief. For example, one can be like Einstein and believe in "the God of Spinoza," Spinoza being a Jewish philosopher who did not believe in the supernatural, but saw the universe itself as God.
     
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  12. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    The Popes decision and speech or sermon is evidently leading to a schism in the church hierarchy ??
     
  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will lead to a schism. I'm not Catholic, but I liked Pope Benedict XVI and always felt a little uneasy about Pope Francis.
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's their business. I'm Orthodox and I personally prefer monasteries. I know though that being celibate like the Catholic priests and living in the world is very difficult, especially considering the society we live in.

     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's not causing a schism in the USA, nor will it. It's been a while since we opened state marriage (civil union) to same sex couples,

    Gallup polling shows a growing percent of America satisfied with that, reaching 2/3 so far.

    I really doubt it will cause a schism in Europe, either.
     
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  16. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I believe they were able to, until the tenth century. Pope Gregory the Great stopped that. I think the reason was that he saw hereditary abbots forming dynasties as a locus of power away from Rome. Many of the monasteries were extremely wealthy at that time.

    I believe that married priests will be the next step and female priests will be seen within the next decade. Both have been strongly urged for about a century.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Pope Benny was the first modern Pope forced into retirement and this was mainly due to his bad handling of the pedophile priests controversy. At one point it seemed as if the Church might have been forced into bankruptcy, like the BSA, but the Cardinals stepped in and Benny, who had been trying to handle the problem "internally" (that is mainly by transferring pedo priests) had to go.

    Don't get the wrong idea, Benedict would and did defrock many priests who had been caught, but moved many others who had just been accused. This led to charges that he was sheltering and he may have been, but most believe this was due to his being fair-minded, rather than favoring pedophiles. Still, the lawyers felt that unless some penalties were exacted at the very top unsustainable liability awards might be in the offing so Benny did his part to preserve St.Pete's solid gold Altars.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Way back in the 70's they determined a genetic component to homosexuality. It is a fact of life, no matter what any religion says.

    I have personally observed perfectly normal bulls attempt to mount other bulls. They cannot speak of course, but the behavior can be observed.
     
  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A bit of reality here. Those so called solid gold altars are supporting a great many charities around the world, and if what you say is true about why Pope Benedict retired, which I don't know, then covering up anything to avoid multi million dollar lawsuits and enriching lawyers, would be a lot better than having millions of poor people starve, and throwing sick people out of the hospitals. Anyway the pedophilia cases - which were not really pedophilia but mostly homosexual advances, started under the former Pope who was incapacitated for years because of illness.

    I think Pope Benedict retired because he saw that Pope John Paul II couldn't run the Church properly because of his illness. So as soon as he realized he couldn't continue the Churches rigorous schedule and obligations, decided to retire and have a younger man take over.

    Another reason might have been the Church in Latin America and how he couldn't relate to their needs and were losing members. Then there was the animosity towards him by the Muslims after he quoted a Byzantine Emperor during class, who said to a Muslim cleric: "What did Mohamed add to the vision of God given to us by Christ." Naturally the Muslims freaked!

    Anyway I liked Benedict because he was the Vatican's theologian and was absolutely brilliant. He spoke 15 languages. As for Francis, I'm a little wary about him - but then again I'm not Catholic so what difference? We have our own problems with a Patriarch who decided to make himself Pope. But I won't go into that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like that Pope Francis termed it a
    Civil Union Law and not Marriage.

    Moi
    :oldman:





    Canada-4.gif
     
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  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm going to say something here which freaked out a great many people - so you can take it whichever way you want. A very popular Cypriot bishop said that a monk told a young man passing by to: "Stop doing what you're doing." The young man looked at him, and said how do you know what I'm doing. The monk told him that his sin has a certain odor to it.

    This might sound strange, but I did read in the biography of the Catholic St. John Vianey, that he told a women from Paris once that: "The stench of her sins made him sick to his stomach". Also an Elder in a monastery, told us confidentially that a man had come in once with a terrible stench - yet the man wasn't dirty, it was because of his sins.


    Well the young man confessed and told the monk he would like to change, and was told that he had to bring his mother and father to confess as well. "But I can't, they don't know about me." So the monk told him that they might not know about you, but they should, because it was their sins during your mother's pregnancy with you that caused your homosexuality. Your brother was lucky, because at the time, they didn't commit those sins.'

    As I said, this upset so many people that an Orthodox bishop in Chicago had to say it wasn't true. As for the Cypriot bishop, he was only repeating what he heard from the highly charismatic Saint Porphyrios which had been recently canonized. Anyway it might be true and I think it is, but that doesn't mean it's true for everyone. A few homosexuals might have a genetic tendency towards homosexuality, but I personally think most cases has to do with the societal pressure imposed on people - especially on those with a low sex drive.
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I wasn't attacking Benedict. I think he did the right thing. I think Francis is too.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    If anyone is married according to state law, with a marriage license etc., that IS a civil union.

    The state doesn't offer or recognize anything else in the way of marriage.

    So, calling it a civil union is exactly right.
     
  24. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Haven't you noticed
    NOT calling it "marriage"
    really upsets LGB??? - upsets "them".

    Equality :blahblah: etc. Equality requires it be termed marriage.
    I suspect their objection is more about, "in your face" gratification.



    Moi :oldman:




    STOP :flagcanada:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  25. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have. Seen dogs try.to copulate on someone's. Leg. And furniture!
     

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