Now many feminists say they are against pornography because it objectifies women. I'm very confused by this, since it seems to me that it does the complete opposite, that it causes men to treat, in the immortal words of The Dude: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikh34ejKRDQ"]Objects Like Women[/ame] That's really what it is, men treating an object(picture, video, audio recording, sex toy) as if it were an actual female. Thoughts?
These feminists are at best like those ancient puritans were. Full of duplicity and 2nd agenda. It is common sense that sexually, absolutely everybody is an object, all women AND all men. Sex is a usage of our body, so yes, our bodies are objects. Same with any physical work.
I'm still trying to convince myself that women to not, absolutely do not, want to be looked at as sex objects. I was walking down the sidewalk and a young woman was walking towards me wearing a vest-type undershirt and obviously no bra. As she approached she said, "What are you staring at?" "Your tits. Are you planning on showing us anything else?" The day men quit looking, all women will have to get jobs.
Perhaps men would do better to ask whether they ought to be viewed as such, regardless of whether they want to be.
If you are anti-pornography, you must be against: 1. Sports, the exploitation of athletic skill. 2. Military, the exploitation of human lives. 3. Entertainment, the exploitation of lying (acting) This list could go on, however, I don't see how the exploitation of appearance differs from the exploitation of any other skill or intrinsic aptitude.
After many years research.....the only problem with porn is that it removes any aspect of compassion from the thought processes associated with sex. I mean its porn and usually that means you only need to worry about pleasing yourself. This is evidenced by the increasing amount of aggression in porn because its matching up the selfish energy of the porn viewer with the action of the porn. It means men can become more selfish when they get to the real deal, but thats not the fault of all porn its the fault of the guy watching it. As long as the chick gets paid a fair wage and is not being forced into any aspect of it, then I'm fine with it. Feminists who think its evil objectification are wasting oxygen.... men objectify women sexually as a natural mechanism of our biology and psychology. I dont know how they think complaining about it is going to make any sort of difference. Sexy women can gain advantage from being sexy and all most women need to do to be sexy is just to get fit and healthy and then let our 2nd brain do the rest. They must just hate men.
That was more in the old days as a result of the Nazi man hater "im a victim" feminists. Many modern feminists embrace sexuality and pornography. Women have actually be come large consumers of porn. In any case the old arguments no longer apply (that women are kept out of the work force so their only choice is to prostitute themselves and their bodies)
The term feminist is so broad that it doesn't really mean anything without some context, but nevertheless there still exists a substantial camp that opposes pornography.
this is part of the reason I object to porn, but I don't feel strongly enough one way or the other to get into a long debate. I do think that people can get addicted to it (just like they can to anything else) and that's not good.. It's like anything really, it can be used responsibly or it can be abused.
The most popular porn today is homemade porn, that is, between couples in an actual relationship. Violent porn is actually a very low percentage.
I said aggression not violance. The aggression in all types of porn seems to be increasing against the Female. Obviously there are types of porn which are specifically about aggression such as violant porn etc but that's not what I was talking about. Since getting off on porn is a solo act by men most of the time the female's role is becoming more of a prop. It might be why as you mention that home made stuff is popular, because the home made stuff is more real between both the male and the female.
Lots of women like porn and get off on it. There is nothing wrong with being a prop. Have you ever heard of some women liking "a man in uniform". Think about it .. its a prop. Folks are into role play more and more for a variety of reasons. Is excaping reality into a world of fantasy such a bad thing ? Escape from reality involves the use of props. Perhaps some folks have a secretary and boss fetish .. why not act it out ? Dr Ruth concurs ! Keeps that spark alive and hopefully turns it into a fire that keeps partners from wanting to stray.
Nah, thanks for trying though. In your example the uniform is the prop. When you start using a person as an inanimate object for you to satisfy only your own sexual needs irregardless of the impact on the 'prop' then thats the sort of aggression I was talking about.
I sent some women supervisors to a class on women in supervisory and management positi9ons. One of the supervisors was talking to me about the class and she got a little embarrassed and asked if she could ask me a personal question. Sure. Well, the instructor had said that men think about sex forty times a day. Was that true? I said, "I think it's a little low." I nodded out the door to a desk where Georgette was bending over in a incredibily short skirt. She grinned and nodded. I also had a woman complain about sexual harrassment because men looked down her blouse when she bent over and she knew what they were thinking. I suggested different blouses and she said she should be able to work naked without men looking. Yeh, that'll happen. If men quit looking, all women will have to get jobs.
ok, I'll do it.... you keep saying this as if women do not have jobs or do not contribute as productive citizens.
Sure it could, especially considering how low you've set the bar for relevance. You can "exploit" someone in a way that leaves him or her better off than before. Employers do it all the time. By contrast, porn, prostitution and other forms of sexual abuse are always a lose-lose deal. So there's nothing wrong with it? She's right - though she may not have understood that the kind of man who wouldn't drool over a naked woman wouldn't hire a woman who dresses llike a slut either.
In the context I was talking, its hardwired into our bodies so absolutely not. That doesnt justify all behaviours which come of it though. Most people these days are just rude and arrogant but that occurs equally in both genders in different ways.
How about murderous hatred? Is that hardwired into our bodies? And if yes, is there anything wrong with indulging in it, regardless of whether it leads to an actual murder?
I don't think porn translates into anything in the real world. It's the same as saying, violent movies/video games cause kids to go out and shoot people in the face. You might watch some weird fetish porno out of curiosity but that doesn't mean you're going to actually act that out in the real world on your girl friend/wife/mistress/whatever. No more than when I am entertained by a guy getting shot in the face in a movie am I going to go out and shoot someone in the face. The whole, men objectify women thing is a chicken and egg scenario. Both men and women play a part and it's pretty much impossible to identify causation. Women do obviously also objectify men. I'm sure many men out there have found themselves watching crap like sex and the city under duress, and the female "idols" in these shows constantly objectify and belittle men. Women are just as shallow and just as chauvinistic as men, many women consider the female sex superior to men. I think the feminist movement would probably do better concerntrating on the attitudes of women rather than just complaining about men. Also I think probably the most under reported and overlooked domestic violence is female violence against men. In the modern western world, I think men and women are just about as equal as we're ever going to get given the inherently unequal nature of our biology.
Not sure how this makes a difference. When you are asking the person to assume a "role" you are using them to satisfy your own sexual needs. Aggression is a separate issue. The point I was responding to was using a person as a prop. Sex is satisfying sexual needs. Hopefully one responds in kind to the partner. For some, being used as a prop result satisfies their sexual desires/needs. You need to flush out what you are saying a little better.
