Portland protests Aug. 17: What you need to know

Discussion in 'United States' started by Lee S, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I hope you're right. I always look forward to getting the Hillsdale newsletter, and ten years ago I spent part of a summer hanging out with the Tea Party in Northern California.

    I don't doubt that we can make inroads among a certain social layer, but ... I've told this anecdote before, so don't stop me if you've heard it because I'd like to hear it again myself:
    The 1952 Democratic Presidential Candidate was Adlai Stevenson [I remember the campaign -- I was crushed when Ike won], the governor of Illiinois and despite that unpromising background, a genuine intellectual -- he even looked the part, the original 'egghead'.
    Anyway, after an erudite campaign trail speech, a woman ran up to him, gushing, "Oh, Governor Stevenson -- that was a brilliant speech! I'm sure every thinking American will vote for you!"
    And he replied, "Yes ma'am ... but I need a majority!"

    To get that majority ... that's the problem.
     
  2. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christ, man, look at yourself!

    (1) Proudboy are fascists because AntiFa say they are because they whine about being called 'fascist' .... errrr ... what???
    [But maybe you're right -- perhaps buried somewhere is a report in a German newspaper from 1929 or so along these lines:
    "In an interview with Herr Hitler, our reporter was told by the NSDAP leader that the Press totally misrepresents him: He was rather
    emphatic about it. The takeaway: HITLER: "DON'T YOU CALL ME A FASCIST!!! WE'RE NOT NAZIS!!! ANOTHER DIRTY LIE FROM THE JEWS!!!!"

    (2) No AntiFa, no coverage. I'll bet the ProudBoys recruited hundreds of members over the weekend.

    (3) No one I know of disagrees about putting limits on promoting violence against others, but ... watch out for that word 'promoting'.
    If a Palestinian at a campus Free Palestine rally spots a supporter of Israel -- maybe someone from MEMRI recording the event, and says, "There's one ... get him!" ...that's one thing. Definitely illegal, off to prison with him. But if a Palestinian gives a heartfelt speech, detailing the terrible suffering of his people, all the awful crimes being committed by the IDF, whom he compares to the Waffen SS, and points out that we killed members of the Waffen SS and then says this Israeli-Waffen SS has supporters right here in the US, you can find them over there behind the Zionist Organizaton of America table ..... would you imprison him too?

    Let me ask you this: do you think the members of AntiFa are more likely to be friends of Israel, or friends of Hamas/Hezbollah?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  3. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not the only two reading! I am taking in every word. I hope you and Talon continue posting your thoughts on the various threads at the Political Forum. It is enlightening to see the thoughts and history that both of you are posting. Thank you!
     
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  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Huh? Do you always go off on stupid strawman nonsense when you can't quite grasp the notion.

    No proud boys are fascist far right men with serious self esteem issues. Seems all the proud boys can do is whine about how they are not fascist bigoted hypocrites.


    I'll bet you are right as its a well known fact that scum attracts scum and stupid attracts stupid.

    If a white person gives an impassioned speech about uppity black people and refers who how his ancestors knew how to deal with them by lynching and whipping and torturing and that these uppity black people can be found just down the street, would you imprison them too?


    Since one has nothing to do with the other, and the original nazis actually sold jews passage to palestine, would you think it more likely that today's fascists would want all the jews in one place? My guess is as good as yours.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've been quite specific, just as Lee was. We're both talking about a specific Anarcho-Marxist hate group that is anti-fascist in name only. Lee and I know who we're talking about - do you?

    Antifa is a specific group - it is not every person, including you and me - who opposes fascism and fascist groups.

    So what motivates the members of an Anarcho-Marxist hate group that commits acts of violence against everyone it perceives as an opponent to their extremist ideology and cause?

    These aren't noble people. These aren't freedom fighters. They don't represent the views and attitudes of normal decent law-abiding people. They're no better and different from the fascists they claim to oppose.

    What's to doubt? Your ability to distinguish between an Anarcho-Marxist hate group that calls itself Antifa and the people who don't belong to that group and oppose fascism?

    I would say so.

    Cute.

    It certainly isn't what Antifa is doing.

    Spare me the gratuitous remarks. I'm well aware of laws governing defamation, slander and libel in this country and those have nothing to do with the lawful exercise of free speech, which includes speech that is controversial, objectionable, offensive and protected under our Bill of Rights.

    But you're a Canadian, so what would you know...:roll:

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Permit me to share some words of wisdom from Martin Luther King, Jr.:

    Let no man drag you so low as to hate him.

    It's a noble sentiment that's well worth embracing, but if you're not willing to go that far consider another alternative:

    Let no dumb f*ck drag you so low as to provoke you into breaking the law and getting your own ass thrown in jail.

    There are ways of dealing with those simians without resorting to violence and other self-destructive behavior. I've found mockery and ridicule to be quite effective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  6. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sure I speak for Talon when I say thank you for the kind compliment.

    However ... book learning definitely has its place, but ....what we really need to know is, what are the American people thinking? What are your neighbors thinking? What moves them? What are they worried about? What kind of experiences are ordinary Americans having, with jobs, mortgages, crime? What do they think about going to war with Iran.? The China trade thing?

    I would dearly love to know this stuff, not living in America and only having email contact with friend and relatives there. I probably make a nuisance of myself when I visit relatives in the US, because I try to find out what they think, although my relatives are solid Republicans and thus I only get one view, and I'm not even sure how typical they are of Republicans.

    So what I would really like to see, if someone would start one, would be a non-contentious thread which just reported on day to day life in the US -- and how people appear to be reacting. I follow the Pew polls, but polls have huge limitations. They don't get to the nitty-gritty of what people actualy feel and say among themselves -- since people are known to adjust their views to make them more socially acceptable to poll-takers.

    I would love to see a thread like that and I bet @Talon would as well.
     
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  7. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks, roo. :beer:
     
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  8. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I'm pretty stupid, clearly, and always go off on stupid strawman nonsense when I can't quite grasp the notion. You'll have to use simpler language.
    However, I can perhaps contribute some information about AntiFa and AntiSemitism and whether they are genuine anti-Fascists.
    I'm of course too stupid to come up with these ideas myself, so I stole them from articles in the Jerusalem Post. I thought this one was pretty good.

    Of course, as a friend of Anti-Fa, you may consider this newspaper just a lying Zionist rag, another voice of that shadowy international bankers' conspiracy that the brave members of AntiFa will soon bring to an end, fighting alongside their Palestinian brothers (whoops, and sisters and ... of course). But I thought it hit the nail on the head, so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  9. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Here's more:

     
  10. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    One thing I do like about antifa is that every time they demonstrate bad behavior (and Fox News covers every moment of it!), it's 100,000 more votes for Donald Trump. Especially because the candidates on the left won't denounce them.
     
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  11. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've been surprised by how many people on the Left -- not talking Democratic candidates now, but pundits and columnists and even academics -- have come out in support of them, one way or the other.
    I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised ... there are ample precedents in the past for liberal intellectuals to endorse or be sympathetic to or 'understand' violent, anti-liberal forces to their Left -- the ancestors of today's liberal thinkers had the same attitude towards Joseph Stalin's minions.

    The phrase then was pas d'ennemi a gauche -- "No enemy to the Left". Then, as now, there was a Far Right enemy - Nazism -- and the Communists seemed like the most determined fighters against it.

    Of course there are many differences. Comparing, say, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, young men who went to Spain to fight Franco's fascist-friendly army -- were infinitely more serious than the human garbage of Anti-Fa, and the phrase "History repeats itself twice, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce" comes to mind.
     
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  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Many view them as the Left's shock troops, not yet as violent as when the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party, but they seem to be moving in that direction.

    THERE IS NO WAY ANY SATIRIST CAN IMPROVE UPON REAL LIFE FOR ITS PURE ABSURDITY:

    Shot: Portland Police: ‘We Wish There Were Some Kind Of Organized, Armed Force That Could Fight Back Against Antifa.’

    —The Babylon Bee today.

    Chaser: Democratic presidential candidates Kirsten Gillibrand and Jay Inslee: Who or what is this Antifa you speak of?

    —The Daily Wire, yesterday.
     
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  13. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Most likely any perceived dissonance between the two springs from an operating definition of freedom which is inconsonant with America's founding principles.
     
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  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's some great photos of the Fascist/Nazi/Commies here. https://www.google.com/search?q=antifa+protests+at+berkeley&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA776CA776&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=ahUKEwj5r9GrgpPkAhURsZ4KHaglAqIQ_AUIEigC&biw=1076&bih=398

    https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...38OeeK-u10KwXqS4-B3liw/ys2fUtkW2Ey2IxWy4OrkMg
     
  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is not satire. https://www.dailywire.com/news/50800/watch-democratic-presidential-candidates-asked-if-james-barrett
     
  16. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    That "Article" is RW BS.:bored:

    Why would you expect any of them to have even heard of "Antifa"?

    "In the News"? :roflol:

    RW Fever Swamp Tinfoil Hat BS Sites are NOT "News".

    Totally LMAO at the notion that anybody would expect a SEROUS Politician to have even heard of "Antifa". :bored:

    Somebody actually expecting these Candidates to have heard of "Antifa"? :roflol:

    You can't make this stuff up.
     
  17. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apparently you think they can make it up. Which is it?

    There was a video. You could have watched the candidates (D) responding. Do you think it might have been trick photography? Or actors? Or that Antifa hasn''t been in the news much this past year?
     
  18. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmmmm.... the Portland events have been on the evening news over here in Britain. But if you're saying that ten million ordinary Britons know more about what is going on in America than many Democratic Presidential candidates, I could agree.
     
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  19. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LMAO - Yeah, why would anyone expect Democratic presidential candidates to know WTF is going on in this country?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    What is actually "going on in this country", and the RW Fever Swamp BS (that nobody takes seriously) that indoctrinates RW Breitbart/Reddit Trolls are 2 completely different things.
     
  21. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    If you would all be so kind as to review this video which was filmed this August 17th in Portland.



    After viewing this video, could you please answer these questions:

    Is Antifa a terrorist organization?

    Why didn't even a single member of the Antifa crowd believe it was a bad idea to stop the attack on a little girl?

    What is up with those people with their cell phones? Wouldn't it have been slightly more helpful to put down your cell phone and attempt to render aid? If nothing else, to inform the Antifa people that attacking little girls has got to be seen as a cowardly act?

    What was the guy in the trojan outfit thinking? Bringing his daughter in broad daylight to a downtown Portland Street to exercise his Constitutionally guaranteed right to speak his mind?

    Since all 13 people arrested for violence were Antifa members and all violence was initiated by Antifa, why is Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler condemning the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer for creating violent situations? Wasn't this demonstration held because the mayor was setting serious and dangerous precedents by siding with a group that could credibly labeled as a domestic terrorist organization?
     
  22. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member

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    I think most of you folks over there have access to a lot of crap news but you also get some decent news and probably are exposed to some of both, but you have enough information to come to a reasoned perception and/or conclusion.

    Unfortunately, most of the dedicated leftists over here only read or watch crap news and therefore are disinformed and misinformed about most of what they think they know when it comes to politics and many other things. That was really illustrated recently by clueless Democrats in Congress et al describing ANTIFA as a 'peaceful organization.'
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  23. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    I think Anti-Fa showing up to protest a rally that was against Domestic Terrorism is quite telling.
     
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  24. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :bored:

    I love the smell of desperation in your posts.

    It smells like....FAILURE.
     
  25. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Trump's dad loved him some rallies and marches also..Except he was on the KKK side of the protests...
     

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