Power generation

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Sallyally, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Has anyone considered building a large Solar Thermal power generator in Alice Springs? Underground cable could be run to the nearest electricity grid point in each state and then run into the national grid?
    It would be a major infrastructure project, but not beyond our means. It could employ the workforce lost to the mining downturn. The only sticking point I can see, is the foreign owners of the current generators. They would squeal loudly at the thought of losing their stranglehold on the power consumers. What do you think?
     
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  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's a good idea, not only because of where it is (ito sunlight) but renewable energies don't need any water for generation and water scarcity is a fast increasing problem worldwide. Malcolm Turnbull is extending the Snowy Mountain project for the East Coast, its $2billion not sure how a Solar project like this would compare... they would have to do a feasibility study...
     
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  3. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    How far would it be to the nearest urban centre? You get considerable losses over distance. You might have to build a DC connection which is more efficient over long distances.
     
  4. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Long overdue,
    even the losses over the distance are negligible.
    100% free energy from the sun might return 88% over the distance, still a great result.....
    Have we got a government to deliver? Of course not.....
    Regards
     
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  5. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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  7. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Why not put solar panels on the roof of every house?
     
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  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think it's getting close. They are very popular. Thermal solar is good for more than daylight hours-I've heard that the Nevada one keeps its heat for several days.
     
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  9. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It'd be ridiculous to limit yourself to a single site - however big - to supply power to the entire country. It'd be a single point of failure for a start. You wouldn't expect a single conventional power station to work for the whole of Australia would you?
     
  10. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yep, you're right. Needs tweaking.
     
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  11. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I would plump for a series of such plants built in every state except Tasmania. There are suitable sites in every state that are closer to major cities and get enough sunshine. These plants would indeed generate rural jobs. There is no reason why current operators can't build them, but if they won't then screw 'em.

    The federal government wants to tip $1 billion into a coal plant to keep it alive for 5 years. That is pretty close to insane, especially when supporters of coal fired power have spent years attacking renewables on the basis that they receive subsidies. Spend the money on base load renewable technology. Start now & one or more of these plants can be up & running by the time that coal fired plant is going off line.
     
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  12. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Yeap,
    you really wonder why our government is still feeding and supporting a dead horse,
    reg.
     
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  13. robot

    robot Active Member

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  14. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    City Sunny Partly Sunny Total Days
    With Sun

    Adelaide, South Australia 88 136 224
    Albury, New South Wales 108 131 239
    Ballarat, Victoria 57 162 219
    Bendigo, Victoria 110 150 260
    Brisbane, Queensland 126 134 261
    Cairns, Queensland 98 137 235
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 105 141 246
    Darwin, Northern Territory 110 129 239
    Hobart, Tasmania 44 149 193
    Launceston, Tasmania 50 151 202
    Mackay, Queensland 123 147 270
    Maitland, New South Wales 90 150 240
    Melbourne, Victoria 46 139 185
    Newcastle, New South Wales 79 141 220
    Perth, Western Australia 144 121 265
    Rockhampton, Queensland 121 151 272
    Rockingham, Western Australia 146 140 286
    Sydney, New South Wales 107 129 236
    Toowoomba, Queensland 107 148 255
    Townsville, Queensland 116 148 264
    Wollongong, New South Wales 108 131 239

    That's about 66% average across Australia or 245/5 days. The average Australian house uses 18 kWh per day (approx. 550kWh per month), A 5kW Solar Kit requires up to 400 square feet of space. 5kW or 5 kilowatts is 5,000 watts of DC direct current power. This could produce an estimated 350 to 850 kilowatt hours (kWh) of alternating current (AC) power per month, assuming at least 5 sun hours per day with the solar array facing South.

    Grid connected solar panel systems are connected to the electricity supply grid. An inverter converts DC low voltage power generated by the solar panels to 240V AC household supply. The smart meter also manages how much electricity is drawn from or fed back into the grid. When excess “Green” electricity is fed into the grid, the meter ticks backwards, so the household only pays the difference between what is fed and drawn.

    These could be financed by the power companies as on average there would be "Green" power fed back into the system, the government would set a price for the first 20kWh for all households, all usage above this would be at premium prices. This would encourage more restraint on usage yet ensure ALL households get sufficient at a low cost.

    A 5kW system is around $4000 to install and last more than 20 years, that's about a $16 a month cost. According to the ABS we spend on average around $120 per month on power.

    This would only cover household electricity but it would take a significant amount off the system. Dr Finkel put refurbishment costs at $500-600 million for a 10-year extension. Liddell power station produces around 8,000 GWh of electricity or enough power for approximately one million average Australian family homes. The refurbishment cost alone would cover over 10% of Liddell without any production costs and virtually zero emissions. The 8,000 gWh of electricity produced by Liddell costs around $480 million a year alone. This would build around 4 x 400 mW solar farms around the state. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-...-southern-nsw-would-be-states-biggest/8677506 so for the cost of the refurbishment of Liddell to extend it 10 years and the cost of running it for 4 years we could more than pay for the cost of the solar panels on the houses and the farms to replace Liddell about 70% of the time BUT FOR approximately 20 years

    Additionally, the boost for companies like http://www.tindosolar.com.au/about-us/about-tindo-solar/ would grow significantly.

    Now this is very rough and probably way off in the figures but it is food for thought. We could slowly use this method to reduce the reliance on coal power. This does not cover business use as this is far more complex. We would still need other sources for backup, business etc but it is a significant way forward.

    The first thing the government needs to do for households is a reduced fixed price or the first 15-20 kWh (average household use is 18 ) with a premium price for excess useage above that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
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  15. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some good ideas there. The power companies are raking it in from the sale or feedin solar. They buy it for five cents a kw and sell for thirty five cents a kw, in my suppliers case.
    Businesses electricity consumption is often not considered in the debate about power- it is complex.
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You would lose too much power
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Basically to work well we do not have enough mountain area withou people camped on it already. There is some hydro in Australia but not a lot because of this
     
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  18. robot

    robot Active Member

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    We have a mountain range that goes along the east coast. Plenty of mountain area.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you familiar with the losses along power lines? And how hard it actually is to transmit electricity over very long distances? You know a lot more about Australia in detail than i do, but here in America, many of our solar plants are not performing as expected.

    I have not met miners that understood such construction jobs so they could report to work with experience in that different field.
     
  20. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    There were electricians, drivers, carpenters, accountants etc, as well as plant operators at the mines. Many of the skills would have been translocatable.( is there such a word? )
    Add'l- post 4. M2catter sounds authoritative about voltage drop over long distances. I don't know , I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  21. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    How about 400 megawatt solar generators at Alice Springs, Adelaide,Lightning Ridge, Bourke, Coober Pedy, Mt Isa or Broken Hill? It's unlikely that there would be cloud cover at each place for a day at a time and the amount of power generated would be 2.8 Gigawatts, this could replace the Loy Yang output and over 2/3 of Liddell.
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Hydro power is to be increased over next decade. One of the very few things to (possibly) thank Turnblad for.

    Meantime, the increasing cost of power is likely to be a significant factor in overall cost of living in our inner cities. There is a much lower level of home ownership, which means no ability to install domestic solar power or similar. So rents are ridiculous, and high cost of power adds to that 'housing stress'. For which I have zero sympathy, I might add.

    Move out of the city, and whack up yer photo voltaics, people!
     
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