Ppp recipients.....

I myself am not arguing with should continue "shuttering" small businesses. What I am saying is the damage from the initial shuttering (regardless of who you want to put the blame on for the initial shuttering)
hasn't been addressed fully properly or even at all at times. And that in my mind is on Trump and congress, taking a recess as people/businesses barely hold it together to me is an indication of their true feelings

 

Both as far as I know. But a near 100% success rate is impossible, failures will happen, tons of businesses fail even in a good economy. It comes with the territory.

Restaurants are a good example, success rate is low normally, shut them down for dining and they are hurting. With that said, a local pizza place near me saw business pick up in a big way during the lockdown, but the seafood joint never came back. Still closed, perhaps they will return, but most likely they go under, walk out on the lease and reopen under another name later this year.

Uring lockdown Nobody wanted a $30 fish plate to go, but everyone apparently wanted a pizza.

 

I'm a small business owner, and i dont feel what you feel. The government situation generally has improved overall since 2017 IMO, so although I have plenty of complaints about trump, his policies regarding small business isnt one of them

 

My position would be that all of this is unconstitutional.

The FedGov, be it Congress, the President, or HHS has no constitutional authority whatsoever to give orders of any kind to the American people.

That said, this so-called pandemic is a manufactured crisis. I think Trump is fully aware of that, but he's somewhat boxed in given the almost total control of our institutions and media by the left.

I'm not a Republican, and didn't vote for Trump in '16 (I voted Libertarian), but I plan on voting for Trump in '20.

The deep state (institutionally embedded Democrats/Marxists) along with China is behind this, and they need to pay. I know they will never be held to account though, and that our days are numbered.

For all of those reasons, I took the ppp money to help me get positioned for the coming collapse. 2024 might be our last election under this Constitution.

We'll be an estimated $50 trillion in debt by then... with $100's of trillions in unfunded mandates.

The whole thing is a house of cards.

 

Isn't that exactly what you did.

You pointed to the unemployment numbers as an indicator that the PPP program failed. How can you come to that conclusion if you don't know what the unemployment numbers would have looked like without it?

So what should have Trump (or the state governors) done differently?

 

A multitude of reasons. I know of several small businesses that didn't apply for the PPP. Getting through the government red tape to get the loan is resourceful demanding. Some small businesses didn't prioritize or dedicate the effort to get the funding. They have closed.

Other businesses were already on the brink. Even nationally, JC Pennys, Pier 1 Imports. Those companies were already in financial straights. This put them over the edge.

I don't think that is an indication that the PPP failed.

And those people you give the money to, the "employees" if you will.... once the economy rebounds, they will be the ones hiring people? The goal was to put businesses in a position to be ready to leverage the capital to quickly bring staff back on payroll and recover the economy more quickly.

 

"You pointed to the unemployment numbers as an indicator that the PPP program failed."

I used multiple things like the rise in chapter 11 bankruptcies (48%) the still high unemployment rate (11.7%) the survey that says businesses plan to layoff once ppp expires (14%)... Those are all fact based numbers

"So what should have Trump (or the state governors) done differently?"

Given the money directly to the people most likely to be affected by the shutdown (people under 40k) and not through a middle man who's only incentive is their profit.

Since that didn't happen, Trump shouldve put much more pressure on the Republican senate to pass relief measures much sooner than now.

 

"once the economy rebounds, they will be the ones hiring people?"

Yes the increased consumer spending from giving the money directly to the people would result in more money to businesses and bigger need for additional employees

 

In your mind how does a payroll tax help the people making 40k and under? Now the people making 40m ya 7.5% looks alot larger

 

Businesses don't typically hire if they've gone bankrupt

 

The program was designed to keep businesses open and people on payroll.

You would prefer that everybody gets laid off, and gets some money they can't spend during a shutdown as business goes bankrupt.

Bad plan.

 

Did it ever occur to you that if the business fails the employees aren't going to have a job to go back to?

Nevermind, consider That rhetorical.

 

With a surplus of consumers with cash on hand how would that happen? The economy is consumer driven

 

Again this is just the basics of our economy that were talking about....... its consumer driven (read if more people have more cash in hand businesses thrive which in turn allows them to hire more people)

 

Its amazing that I seem to be the only one here supporting ideas with sourced information.......

So you agree that a payroll tax will benefit the people who were least hurt during the shutdown? The rich....... 7.5% is alot when your moving big numbers but chump change to a poor person......

 

We had that. 1,200 for every adult and 500 per child.

The equivalent of about a 10% raise over the median income.

Still, the economy crashed.

 

Your blinded by class warfare.

7.5% of labor expenses for any company is a great deal of money. In your ideology of eat the rich, all business owners are swimming in silos of cash.

Labor cost is by far the biggest cost for most business. Also the most costly for government when honoring unemployment benefits.

Like most of the class warfare folks, you are operating from a position of greed... wanting your money, while simultaneously calling everybody else greedy.

And thats why socialism fails.

 

Weirdly a bill was passed that was 2.2t yet only 500 billion was allocated to stimulus... When again our economy is consumer driven.....


"
Here's how the Bureau of Economic Analysis divides U.S. GDP into the four components.


Consumer spending contributes almost 70% of the total United States production. In 2019, that was $13.28 trillion.3 Note that the figures reported are real GDP. It's the best way to compare different years. They are rounded to the nearest billion. The BEA sub-divides personal consumption expendituresinto goods and services. "

https://www.thebalance.com/consumer-spending-trends-and-current-statistics-3305916

The money shouldve went to the consumer and everything else would've follow especially as a percentage these businesses took federal money and ran leaving their employees high and dry

 

Guy, what other reason would there be for advocating for a payroll tax when the people most harmed won't benefit nearly as much as a richer person. It's the goal to help those people right now? To stop crime rates evictions suicides.... do you believe there's time for these people to wait in this instance for these mega businesses to maybe trickle some money down?

Just simple math

Let's take a person who makes $300 a week vs a person who makes $3000 a week....... times both by 7.5%, who gets more benefit?

 

Sigh. Cash in the hands of consumers doesnt work when govt mandates your business closes. They consume elsewhere.

 

And now that they're open?

 

Depends.

The guy making $300 has $250 in bills, and the guy making $3000 has $2,500 in bills. I don't want to be in either of their shoes.

Also, your kind forgetting that only the employer pays payroll taxes, not the employee. Big miss on your part.

Payroll deductions for income tax, from payroll, are not the same as payroll tax.

 

Lol, they wouldn't be open if it weren't for the PPP program.

 

Now they can consume at your place if business, and the PPP helped to make sure your place of business survived.

 

But it didn't help enough again see chapter 11 bankruptcies... So opening up alone will negate months of slow or no business?