Precautions necessary resulting from the Coronavirus epidemic

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by LafayetteBis, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From The Guardian newspaper here: Why has coronavirus testing in the US been such a disaster?

    Excerpt:
    The fact that testing machines will be available to find/confirm those who are Covid-19 infected is good news. But just what is the timeframe in which they will be installed and effective?

    I'm a Yank living in France. This last weekend the government asked people to "stay at home" - just like the rule adopted previously in Italy. (Which, so far, has been the European country most stricken by the virus.)

    And yet, on Sunday, what did we see? It was a nice day in Paris, and like all Sundays far too many Parisians had decided to "walk about" unprotected.

    DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF THIS VIRUS TO KILL A GREAT MANY PEOPLE. It has been declared a "pandemic" - that is, a disease prevalent across entire countries or states.

    Here (from World Meter) is the Total Death Count from this virus. Take the numbers seriously as well as this advice:
    *BE CAREFUL of spending too much time outside your dwelling (house, apartment).
    *When you go out, it should be only to shop for food! No mixed-gatherings! (Like having food in a restaurant or drinks in a bar.)

    *Obtain a mask and wear it inside any closed premises - like an office or a shopping center.
    *Avoid non-essential travel especially by means of an enclosed environment (like an airplane, train or bus.
    *Above all, do not panic. With the proper precautions you can survive this epidemic!


    Further advice from the World Health Organization: Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) advice for the public
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I actually don’t see the issue with people walking around outside as long as they’re keeping reasonable distance from others. Staying cooped up inside all day isn’t especially healthy in general terms and a key protection from minor infections (as this is for most people) is general good health.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PART 1

    People are people, not machines that can be programmed to keep a "reasonable distance" from others. Besides, there is no such thing as "reasonable distance" in a crowded supermarket. Especially if one is not-wearing a medical filter-mask. (And yes, the industry is nowhere nearly able to provide all the masks that might be necessary to 330 million Americans. )

    Now this bit of idiocy from the Trump's Surgeon General (two weeks ago) in late February from here: Surgeon General Urges the Public to Stop Buying Face Masks

    Let's presume that the SG was upset that the manufacturers of the masks at-that-time (two weeks ago) did not have in-stock a sufficient to supply an entire population of Americans? So, what does a country do? Some idiots are going to use a gun to steal FaceMask-stocks in order to make a bundle of money!

     
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PART 2

    And now for a bit more of "idiocy": If you buy a simple-mask (of the kind one sees regularly at a hospital on TV) you should know that such masks if worn regularly are thrown away and replaced by hospital-professionals. They often wear these masks all day long in hospitals - but they eventually throw them away.

    Thus, when push-comes-shove, the Surgeon General will make sure that the supply of masks go to hospitals an not individuals. So, the point of it all is to simply STAY AWAY FROM ANY POSSIBILITY OF INFECTION. (Yes, that aint-gonna-be easy.)


    Furthermore: One must be weary of crowds in supermarkets or department stores in what could very well become a national pandemic. And this fact is statistically true today: US has barely the supply of masks necessary to cover a genuine pandemic. (Meaning this: Let's hope that - like what may be happening today in China - the number of people who contract CV-19 is finite. Sooner or later the maximum is attained and then diminishes all-by-itself.)

    I suggest that we are in the Early Stages and WE SHOULD NOT PANIC. Neither should we think that this problem is going to pass in just a few weeks. Because, it isn't!


    So, stay cool, bro ... !
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  5. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We can’t force people to follow all the basic protective measures regardless of whether they’re at home or outside. My point remains that simple walking around outside isn’t itself fundamentally harmful but locking yourself indoors for weeks on end certainly is.

    That wasn’t idiocy. Basic facemasks are of limited benefit to the average person going around day-to-day and could actually increase the harm if the untrained don’t follow the correct procedures for using them or if they generate a false sense of security. Most people don’t need masks and the panic buying led to shortages for those who do (such as working medical staff).

    There is no point in panicking at all – it’s always irrational. I’m not convinced the extreme proclamations in the rest of your posts are really consistent with this message. You sound like you’re on the edge of panic yourself and certainly aren’t discouraging it in others.
     
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're right that we cannot "force" anybody to do anything. (Well, we can, but the process gets bloody. ;^)

    True also for "walking about outside". But what appears to be the rule adopted here in Europe is "three feet" - that is, about a yard's distance from any individual outside in plain-air. When walking down a crowded street it is entirely possible that your nose and the other person's mouth/nose breathing out is not more than two-feet and certainly less that three.

    So, it's circumstantial - that is, where you are walking and whether in a crowd or not. Or, even, just your closest friend/wife/child. (When's the last time you walked that distance apart from them?)

    That distance ain't easy at rush-time in a train-station, an airport, bus-terminal - of in a train or an airplane of on a bus.

    Do as you like. But any consideration on this subject gets hairy. Still, do consider these CV-19 death figures here (as of 13 March) for Europe. Note that the very last dated-figure is understated to not contain the numbers for this past weekend ...

    PS: These "country" rates are not comparative to the US in numbers. Italy with the highest number of deaths to date is at 1600. Italy has the population of, say, California and Florida - around 60 million people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  7. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are all the streets that busy? If you’re just out for some fresh air, surely you could easily avoid the busiest streets. I used to live in central London but for all the crowds, there were plenty of quite areas to find.

    Sure, but that’s still no worse than being stuck in the house with them 24-7 (health and sanity wise :cool: ).

    Yes, but you were talking about people just walking outside at the weekend, not commuting or travelling long distance. Again, you seem to be on the edge or the panic you say we should be avoiding. It’s a bad situation but we need to be realistic and practical about it.
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, of course. I do live in the countryside and am (presently) grateful for that. But, I wont be going into any large city here in France any time soon to do "shopping".

    Besides, France as of Saturday closed all stores except Pharmacies and Supermarkets.

    Here in France, and after the mistakes made originally by Italy, the rules (just published yesterday) as set down by the French president indicate that we should all (workers or not) stay home*. Clearly, his strategy is to assure that people do not mix because Italy has shown that when they do, then fatalities sky-rocket.

    (And particularly since the ruling was established on Saturday, but on Sunday, and in beautiful Spring weather, the city-centers were resplendent with people strolling about the parks. So, the French are kinda-sorta "thick"? You betcha! )

    In France, all businesses are "supposedly closed" for the next couple of weeks. Let's say, France is taking an "early Spring vacation". Still, if one wants to work at home, then they can do so over the Internet. And their pay is not docked for doing so but the government offsets in part that cost to companies* ...

    *Only pharmacies and supermarkets remain open to the public.

    *Surely it's a piddling amount that is reimbursed to companies for closing down. It will likely hurt businesswise car-companies because they start reselling in the Spring - and Spring here in France has sprung!
     

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