Progressive activists are wary over criminal justice under a Biden-Harris administration

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by flyboy56, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,335
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I and many other folks have been saying this since Biden and Harris teamed up. Both candidates have a history of being hardliners when it comes to law and order. So this should not surprise anyone. They only have a little over a month to change the progessives' opinion. I would love to hear AOC's opinion.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/26/politics/biden-harris-criminal-justice-activists/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_topstories+(RSS:+CNN+-+Top+Stories)

    (CNN)They spent the summer on the frontlines of a historic protest movement against police violence. But many young criminal justice activists leading the charge for police reform won't be enthusiastically casting their ballots for the Democratic presidential ticket in November.

    Nominee Joe Biden and California Sen. Kamala Harris, his running mate, have clashed with progressives over the years, seeding a distrust that the ongoing campaign is not attuned to their perspective. And though the Democratic ticket is the choice of most activists, Biden and Harris are still regarded warily by those pushing hardest for meaningful reforms to the criminal justice system.
    In a series of interviews this summer, organizers told CNN their angst over the records of Biden, who wrote the 1994 crime bill, and Harris, a former prosecutor, along with the pair's outwardly supportive rhetoric for law enforcement, fuels their concerns about the future. And while Biden choosing Harris, a daughter of Indian and Jamaican immigrants, was in part a nod to influential Black women who wanted to see a reflection of themselves -- Black and highly qualified-- in the highest office in the land, the young activists said representation alone is not enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  2. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    14,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ain't that a bitch. One side says you are a jack-booted thug; the other says you want to defund the police.

    That there tells me Biden/Harris is the perfect choice.
     
    Surfer Joe likes this.
  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What has passed itself off as a progressive movement seems to find the police state model of governance irresistible.
     
    ButterBalls and Chrizton like this.
  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can't punish red states without people to enforce it I suppose.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everyone on the small limited government end of the political spectrum should be very sympathetic to the call for defunding the police.
    Ditto the education system.
     
  6. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    24,287
    Likes Received:
    15,347
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lol...so you think the progressives are going to stamp their feet and vote for trump instead, eh?
    Anyways, don't you people like to claim that Biden is controlled by BLM and antifa?
    You need to get your stories straight.
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Totalitarian thinkers tend to focus on liquidating their real and perceived opposition.
    Secret police and kangaroo courts are critical for the success of their programs.
     
    Chrizton likes this.
  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most progressives still tend to reject fascism, racism and bigotry. Those progressives made it possible for Trump to take down the Big Blue Wall and win the presidency. They are even less likely to vote for Biden this November.
     
  9. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    14,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If one is truly small-government, he'd want to defund more than the police and the schools.

    Irrelevant to my point, though. When both sides' criticisms are the exact opposite of each other, I can be fairly certain the truth is in the middle, and being a moderate independent, that's what I look for.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All real "moderates" should want to see large reductions of every part of the government bureaucracy at every level.
    Only anarchists and detached libertarians seek to remove entirely the inherent evil that is government.
     
    ChiCowboy likes this.
  11. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    14,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm actually somewhat of a deficit hawk. I don't care as much about the amount we spend as I do about our ability to pay for it. That doesn't mean the sky's the limit, but I do strongly support living within our means.
    Agreed. Detached libertarians. Lol.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  12. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO, the best course would be first to eliminate the minimum wage for unskilled labor hired by low net worth employers while subsidizing those low wages with money transfers from every level of government.

    It will be politically impossible to make significant cuts in spending until the fundamental needs of the productive working class are met. Cash subsidies are the way to do it for productive workers.
    Take money from the bureaucracy and give it to American workers for healthcare and education.

    Beyond that every tax advantage that has been given to favor Big Business over small business should be eliminated.

    “Hiring a lobbyist aligned with a powerful politician is more important than hiring a lobbyist with a certain expertise or experience. Hiring a former staff member or family member is better still. It’s the favor that matters. Sometimes such favors are requested by politicians. Other times they don't need to ask out loud. Several powerful politicians have multiple members of their immediate family (spouses and children) who make big money from lobbying.” EXTORTION, "How Politicians Extract Your money, BuyVotes, And Line Their Own Pockets, Peter Schweizer, HMO, NY, NY, 2013, p. 4,5.

    IOW, absent overwhelming popular support for very radical change the current corrupt system that favors the partnership between Big Bad Government and Big Bad Business will continue. Even now, while Darden and McDonalds thrive 10s of thousands of single location restaurants have been driven out of business.
     
  13. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,335
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You people? How about the Bernie base dis Biden/Harris the way they did Hillary Clinton and just don't vote? Then where will Biden/Harris be? Up craps creek without paddle, that's where.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  14. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,335
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can you read? CNN interviewed progressives to get a read on where they stand, and it does not bode well for Biden/Harris. They both have a history of being hardliners when it comes to law and order. The facts can't be denied.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  15. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    14,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, so what follows was a really dumb idea on your part.
     
  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sanders voters know that the DP rigged the party's primaries and nomination process against Sanders.
    Most will not vote for Biden. Many will again vote for Trump.
    Which is not to say that they like Trump - at all.
     
  17. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    14,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed. Good idea using minimum wage and subsidies for "entry-level" businesses. I don't know if I'd eliminate the MW completely, but a lower tier can easily be carved out.

    We are a nation of economic dynasty, and have been since we industrialized in the 19th century, so radical change to estate law would seem a bit un-American, which it would to me, but since the general issue is access, we should at least acknowledge that inheritance is the least meritorious way of getting access. It's a touchy subject with me, but I can't deny that our current system could be improved.

    I agree on the corruption, but that's kinda always been here, as well. Change is inevitable; that's historically apparent. The question is how far does the pendulum have to swing before popular support slows it down?
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, so long as organized labor wants a minimum wage for skilled labor I don't think the political class should remove it. Just get rid of it for unskilled workers. Thier work, collectively, can be very valuable, but not valuable enough for individuals or small businesses to hire them at the MW. We should all chip in to get them into the labor market where they can live independent productive lives while creating a work history that will allow them to rise.

    I do not think the estate tax is necessary to discourage business dynasties, but I do think anti-competitive partnerships between Big Government and Big Business are poisonous. Once any Big Business is caught crushing its smaller competitors the role of government granted tax breaks and preferences should be investigated. In America the preferences should favor of small enterprises. The Founders of the USA, like Adam Smith, were very hostile to anti-competitive "large capitals".

    "In a country, too, where, though the rich, or the owners
    of large capitals, enjoy a good deal of security, the poor, or the
    owners of small capitals, enjoy scarce any, but are liable, under the
    pretence of justice, to be pillaged and plundered at any time by the
    inferior mandarins, the quantity of stock employed in all the different
    branches of business transacted within it, can never be equal to what
    the nature and extent of that business might admit. In every different
    branch, the oppression of the poor must establish the monopoly of the
    rich, who, by engrossing the whole trade to themselves, will be able to
    make very large profits."
    PROJECT GUTENBERG, AN INQUIRY INTO THE NATURE AND CAUSES OF THE WEALTH OF NATIONS., By Adam Smith, 1776.
    http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3300/pg3300.txt
     
    ChiCowboy likes this.
  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Biden helped draft the 94 crime bill that grew our criminal justice/police state/prison industrial complex into a stage 4 cancer that is strangling the nation. Biden will not be allowed to dodge his responsibility.

    "The federal crime bill did not trigger mass incarceration, but it certainly encouraged mass incarceration to grow even further. The 1994 law was the largest crime bill in the history of the United States. It was meant to make a statement, and it did — in at least two ways.

    First, the 1994 crime bill gave the federal stamp of approval for states to pass even more tough-on-crime laws. By 1994, all states had passed at least one mandatory minimum law, but the 1994 crime bill encouraged even more punitive laws and harsher practices on the ground, including by prosecutors and police, to lock up more people and for longer periods of time."
    ACLU, THE CAMPAIGN, How the 1994 Crime Bill Fed the Mass Incarceration Crisis, By Udi Ofer, Deputy National Political Director and Director of Campaign for Smart Justice, ACLU, JUNE 4, 2019.
    https://www.aclu.org/blog/smart-jus...1994-crime-bill-fed-mass-incarceration-crisis

    Time to find out who has benefited from this atrocious mess.
     
    flyboy56 likes this.
  20. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Biden and Harris have a proven track record of police state style tactics when they have power.. I have no doubt you'll see mass lock ups if they win
     
    flyboy56 and Ddyad like this.
  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep.

    "The [DP] platform encouraged states to pass truth-in-sentencing laws, bragged about instituting the death penalty for nearly 60 more crimes, and even encouraged the prosecution of young people as adults. This platform remained largely in place until 12 years later, when in 2008, the tone and substance began to change under new leadership in the party. Coincidentally, incarceration rates peaked in 2008."
    ACLU, THE CAMPAIGN, How the 1994 Crime Bill Fed the Mass Incarceration Crisis, By Udi Ofer, Deputy National Political Director and Director of Campaign for Smart Justice, ACLU, JUNE 4, 2019.
    https://www.aclu.org/blog/smart-jus...1994-crime-bill-fed-mass-incarceration-crisis
     
    struth likes this.
  22. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A broken home, leads to more poverty, and Govt dependence.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  23. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,335
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And what idea would that be?
     
  24. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,335
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Or just not vote at all.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  25. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sanders voters are generally active. I think they will vote for Trump or some other alternative to the DP.
    Jill Stein attracted a lot of them the last time around.
     

Share This Page