Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you can be charged for what someone else does and the law doesn’t even need to apply. Fascinating.
     
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  2. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    When the majority of parents loiter the guns around for their rather unstable kid to grab to commit a massacre... then I indeed favor to vilify them over it. It seems your fanatically support irresponsible parenting that gets other peoples kids killed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  3. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What matters is she knew someone did the shooting and most likely suspected her son as did the father so really it didn't matter whether or not he was in custody, she felt the need to reach out to him with a message that would not apply to the shooting of others since it had already been reported by the time she sent her text message.
     
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The father called 911 to tell them the gun was missing and the shooter might be his son.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  5. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We're in general agreement here, but it still could matter what she knew when she sent it. Just because the shooting of some had been reported doesn't mean he wasn't still capable of shooting more people at the time of the text.

    So it could apply to the shooting of others... I agree with you that it's doubtful, but it's possible until we know what she knew and when she knew it... and it changes nothing for this case....
     
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe but both sides have politicized the killing of children while in a place thought to be safe for them. If gun laws can't be changed then maybe society can make parents more responsible for their child's actions. I realized this could be opening a can of worms for parents but pro-gunners IMO have only themselves to blame for this with their unrelenting pro gun laws in a country that is ill equipped to handle these senseless shootings. The pro gun enthusiasts are waging a war against a generation of children who will forever be traumatized by these events.
     
  7. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And we need to find out why he believed it was his son, why he checked for the gun before calling if he did in fact look for it.
     
  8. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    There is almost zero chance that the manslaughter charges can get hung on the parents. The legal precedence in Michigan is that you had to knowingly aid him in the planning and execution of the shooting. Clearly that is not the case here. I do hope they get sued and lose everything however.
     
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The unrelenting pro gun law you speak of is called the constitution.
     
  10. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    Beyond just the criminalization of parents this would open up a whole slew of very questionable Legal precedents of people being held accountable for criminal actions. For example, You sell a wood splitting axe to someone and they use it to kill their wife and kids. Are you now accountable for manslaughter? These charges are definitely in the legal shady area of law. Politics of guns aside, your opening up a big can of worms. This could also be used to go after businesses for the misuse of products as well. Not just firearm manufacturers.
     
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  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The parents did nothing when presented the red flags about his behavior, and his behavior was fantasizing about death by gunfire. Instead, they gave him a gun. You don't need to be a psychologist to understand that this is putting a fox in the henhouse.
     
  12. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Not a far stretch at all. They attended the school meetings, they saw the sketchings and the mother encouraged said behavior "lol, don't get caught." Knowingly isn't the same thing as knowing the exact steps taken to acquire the gun. The moment they knew he had the intentions of doing this, they became criminally liable in not stopping it.
     
  13. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    If the consumer made mention of wanting to kill said wife and kids, yes. On the other hand, if you were to sell for example febreze and it clearly says "don't spray on eyes" and someone attacks you with that, it's not the fault of the company that it went in the hands of some criminal.

    The difference is in intent and consequence, and responsibility. The only responsibility that a merchant has, is that they sell legally. In this case for example, the boy's father had no criminal record. Technically, the background check worked. How is the merchant to know that the kid is insane/wants to kill kids and that the father was buying the gun for the kid?

    That's why despite the low hanging fruit, Michigan DA isn't going after the merchant. The process worked, but the process wasn't elaborate enough.
     
  14. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    No, that’s because he killed multiple people beyond and question of doubt.
     
  15. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like something that isn't relevant to the charges, nor, again, something strange.

    I'll say it again: The letter found day of is what's disturbing, and the fact the resource officer for the school didn't search his bag is absurd. He had probable cause and should've used it as was his job.
     
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  16. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    This actually didn't come out until the day of the shooting, at school. The school found what he'd written, and didn't take his backpack and search it or suspend him. School's need almost no excuse to do either of those things, and that writing he produced is more than enough for both.
    I once was suspended for 3 days because someone punched me in the face. "Zero tolerance policy". And that was in the early 2000's
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
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  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    do we arrest Muslim parents for the crimes of their children? not sure how Muslim came into this?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I do think people who aid muslim terrorist are arrested as well for their roll of the crime.
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Banned

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    Sounds like daddy wanted the cops to blast his son for him.
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    show me one case where the Muslim parents were arrested for their kids crimes
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  21. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense, there is no legal basis for your opinion. Manslaughter charges have very specific elements that have to be proven in court. Specific to this case they have to KNOWINGLY contributed to his shooting up the school. I have yet to see any evidence that they knew he was going to do that. When presented with some I am happy to change my mind. The mothers text as presented by you is taken out of context. Whether you did that intentionally or not I dont know.
     
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  22. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    The only difference between my wood splitting axe and this case as we currently understand it is the tool used to execute the crime. In both cases the provider of said instrument used in murder had no prior knowledge of the intent to kill. Making that a criminal liability is going into some deeply murky and probably dangerous waters of Criminal liability that has no legal precedence.
     
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  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I need to prove that aiding terrorism is a crime? The hell? lol
     
  24. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you know this already or not, but the "LOL, don't get caught" text was not related to the drawing discovered on the morning of the shooting.
     
  25. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    EXCEPT:

    In Michigan, for INVOLUNTARY Manslaughter (which are the charges againt the parents):

    That is NOT Required.

    In Michigan, the Prosecution must prove three elements beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Elements of manslaughter:
    1. That the defendant caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of the defendant's action.

    2. That the defendant either:
      1. intended to kill the victim
      2. intended to do great bodily harm to the victim,
      3. created a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result.
    3. That the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse.
    Involuntary manslaughter occurs when an individual kills another person without intent, or unintentionally.
     

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