Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so was the school and they put him back in the classroom

    no one thought he was gonna be a mass shooter, if they claim they did, then they should have not let him go to class
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Parents are not psychologists. The school has them for a reason and they did nothing.
     
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  3. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is there something in the constitution that says parents aren't legally responsible for their minors?
     
  4. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Would you lock up the mother of a 17-year-old gangbanger that shoots someone in a drive-by if the mother knew, for example, that he was in the gang?
     
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  5. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem here is nobody thought. No adults in the room. The warning signs were there.
     
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did the mother know her son had a gun and was threatening to use it?
     
  7. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    For my hypothetical, sure, let's assume that yes, she's aware that he had possession of a firearm and he had been threatening to get back at the rival gang members for days prior to the drive-by. Is she criminally culpable?
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not fond of free speech either I see.
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, I think many could be civilly liable, criminally liable is the question
     
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  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    His parents were told their kid has fantasies that were about blood and bullets by the school. And only the parents knew he could have a gun, because they GAVE it to him... yet they said nothing. And you tell me when 1 party has the knowledge of blood + bullets + gun at a school can't come up with a school shooting?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Already replied to this in 274
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    did they know he had a gun with him?

    could they be civilly liable, absolutely... but charging them with murder is a bit much imo
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  13. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's why I voted for Trump. If I don't want to hear someone else's opinion I just tell them to shut up. So who did you vote for?
     
  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    This story started, and remains, tragic, but damn if some of it isn't turning funny as well.... Bound to happen when dealing with clowns

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-school-shooting-suspects-parents-161004768.html

    I imagine the parents have also started a Go Fund Terrorism.... err.... Go Fund Me .... site to pay for some of this..

    This is where the conservative stimulus checks are likely going...
     
  15. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    No but their is something about charging people for crimes they did not actually commit.
     
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  16. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter? They were warned that their kid was unstable and had weird fantasies about death and bullets flying. And with that knowledge they knew he owned a gun, because they gave it to him. That's tossing the fox in the henhouse. There really is no difference between what they did, and a person giving a gun to a Muslim who totally radicalized. That the parents weren't given a heads up what exact moment their kid would start it's terrorism is simply not important.
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes it matters. They had no clue their son would do this; thus, the reason the charge is prosecutorial misconduct. The school found the writings not the parents and the school sent him back to class.
     
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  18. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oops. Can of worms! :)

    So the undeniable truth that more guns = more gun deaths can't be refuted. Yes, it's a little bit of a sneaky/narrow argument, but actually many gun owners advocates won't even acknowledge this. I was, in part, trying to gauge where you "are at". So you are sensible and we can continue. Yes, other metrics are at play and I think culture must be a huge factor. To add to your Vermont statistics argument, Canada has a bit over a 1/4 the gun ownership (still a massive amount of guns) , yet proportionality vastly lower gun deaths. Aligned with this argument is the observation of the diversity of Americans. Many gun deaths are urban ghetto/drug - and more ephemerally, depression-related (suicide). Why should the good folk within your "neck of the woods" be obliged to give up your firearms based on broad statistics? OR, to be more precise, give up your semi-automatics. Our country folk gave up theirs unwillingly due city folk pressure related to the Port Arthur Massacre. This was easy to expedite politically as our rural influence is much smaller and we only have 7 states. So Fed Gov can exert much greater power. However the US does not allow full automatics, so the distinction between out two countries comes down to where you draw the line in the sand of utility vs. genuine threat, rather than a black and white yes or no. Would you use the same arguments in this post to support the renewed sale of new full-automatic weapons in the US? "Isn't it the human that picks up the gun that is a danger, not the weapon?"

    This is a principled argument that taps into the political nature of decision-making and the superficial analyses that come into play too appease voters. You argue that a broad influence of diet and other environmental factors may lead to increased "life-taking". It's a good argument and I agree. [I would suggest to include education and urban crowding and pollution as well. ] You've obviously studied and thought a lot about this. May I ask, have you looked at whether food and parenting is controlled for - in accounting for the differences between American and Canadian gun homicide rates? This could help deduce the weight of "health and environment" or parenting or culture or other "stress-related" factors in homicide and suicide levels, including gun deaths. ( I acknowledge that there may well have been controls in the studies that you have alluded to - and that you can pull apart statistics without going international in your analysis. I just like the US vs Canadian one because it is easier for this poor Australian to visualize)

    I'll reply to the other section tomorrow.

     
  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The school gave them all the clues needed.
     
  20. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do believe that is for courts to decide. Aiding and abetting a crime is a crime. A trial will help determine just how involved the parents were with their son's planned killing spree.
     
  21. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't know the parents had no clue. This is why they need to go to trial so we can find out just what they knew.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    a dangerous precedent to arrest people for their children's crimes

    the parents did not know he was gonna shot up the school
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  23. trilerian

    trilerian Newly Registered

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    You are being too results oriented. You make the conclusion that the kid will shoot someone because he made a drawing of it. There are plenty of people out there that think, draw, or write stories about how they want to kill people, yet never do. I would even wager that the high majority of people who do this, never try to kill someone. It is always easy to look back and point blame or to say this is where we should have noticed. But in the end something broke inside this kid, maybe he was always broken.

    Also, you never know. Maybe if his parents didn't buy him a gun for Christmas he would have built an explosive to do the deed. Would his parents still be responsible then? What if he does it 3 years later?

    Again, the kid is broken. Some people don't want to believe that, they want to add blame elsewhere so they can feel better at the end of the day that this was due to neglect in some part. Not because some people are wired like this.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    BS. This has never happened before but this charge is politically motivated due to a number of factors.
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You're not responding to the point that the parents were made aware of their kids fantasies about figures being shot with laughing emoji's around it, and yet gave him a gun. And I see no problem with a precedent that people should be held accountable for providing weapons to mentally unstable people who fantasize about murder. Actually, how about you explain yourself why this should be alright.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021

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