Public Funding for Abortion

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by TheNightFly, May 19, 2017.

  1. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Typically not before the 24th week of the pregnancy because the survivability rate of a fetus prior to then is poor and even then it takes highly trained specialist, elaborate medical equipment, and a very long stay an infant ICU unit (and it very, very expensive!). At 24 weeks the likelihood of survival is only 39%.
    https://www.verywell.com/premature-birth-and-viability-2371529

    Justice Rehnquist is playing a word game. In fact based upon strict scrutiny, the most stringent requirement imposed, and textualism, the most strict "originalist" (conservative) criteria all of the abortion laws were struck down. The State of Texas couldn't show how any abortion laws protected any other person's rights so it failed the fundamental requirement for "strict scrutiny" (i.e. a lack of an identifiable State's interest in protecting someone's rights).

    The court then presented a "pragmatic" (non-originalist) argument for the existence of the "potential" person (not protected by the Constitution) with "potential" rights (not protected by the Constitution) that would create a "potential state's interest" to allow for the limited restriction abortion. Roe v Wade didn't "prevent" states from imposing restrictions in the first trimester. That had already been prohibited by the striking down of all the abortion laws. Roe v Wade allowed states to create restrictions in the third trimester and to a very limited degree in the second trimester.


    Actually the government collects money from people and then spends government money. When I worked in aerospace before retiring the company paid me but I spent my own money. Once I received my paycheck that money no longer belonged to the company I worked for. When you pay taxes you do so with your money. Once the government receives the payment then it's the government's money, not yours.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  2. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    All abortions are for the health of the woman.
     
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  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you would be wrong. It means that you realize that there are innocents are in the same house where the terrorist is but you let the missile loose anyway - knowing that innocents will likely be killed.

    = Intentionally bombing a location where there are innocents.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "all others that the military kills" does not make the claim hyperbole nor a personal attack ? I agree that Fox does a personal attack in that post. I did not do this but you did in your post to me.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. This however does not address the topic which is that some people do not want tax dollars going towards war.

    A poster was arguing that abortion should not be funded because "they do not like it". My response was that in general, we do not get to pick and choose.
     
  6. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Like most things I have mixed feelings. On one hand if it's elective then why should I have to pay for it? I can't say I'd be thrilled to pay for someone's tummy tuck so why should I be thrilled to pay for an elective abortion or any elective procedure for that matter? On the other hand, in regards to abortion I'm going to be paying no matter what; either for the abortion procedure or for the unwanted kid.I'd be willing to bet the later is more financially burdensome. It's a lose-lose situation for taxpayers. I don't know...I suppose if I'm going to pay either way I might as well pay for both.
     
  7. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    No but the "YOU's" Most certainly do ;) General and Direct are distinctive, might want to check in to that :nerd:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  8. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    I do not believe that the tax payers should pay for abortions. I am going to be a little crude here but sex is between 2 people, they should pay for any abortion need that may arise, if they want me to chip in on it give me my turn at bat if I want it. In the case of rape I still believe that should be a personal expense. War on the other hand comes under the heading of National Security, since everyone benefits from that everyone should pay for it. :oldman:
     
  9. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    I guess I might be classified as cruel but my opinion is, if due to poor planning or lack of abortion funds if someone ends up with 2 kids that the taxpayers have to support the parents should be sterilized. If a child has a disease and needs public aid I have no problem with that. :oldman::oldman:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Taxpayers do not pay for abortions.

    Everyone benefits when a woman aborts a child that she can't afford....it doesn't end up on Welfare.

    War is killing people....so it doesn't benefit everyone, there are dead and maimed on both sides.


    What did you mean by : "" if they want me to chip in on it give me my turn at bat if I want it."" ?
     
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  11. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Bless your heart.

    You assume your premise. Prove it's self defense
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    It isn't self defense NOW because a fetus is not a "person"...However, IF a fetus is ever declared a "person" with rights it will also have the same restrictions everyone else has. It cannot use another's body to sustain it's life.

    It DOES cause bodily harm to the woman it's in and so IF it's a person then she can certainly defend herself ...and there is only one way to do that.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The first point is that in general we do not get to pick and choose how tax dollars are spent. Some things I will like and others I will not. I am a constitution loving fiscally conservative Republican ( old style prior to the religious right taking over the party and trying to legislate on the basis of religious belief/Theocracy).

    In general I disagree with having to pay for the consequences of two people having sex and folks should pay for the abortion if they are able. The problem comes when they are not able. We then have two choices - pay for the abortion or pay for the child.

    Since the costs of an abortion are not even a rounding error in relation to the costs of bringing a child in to an impoverished environment, "Everyone benefits" by having the state pay for abortions.

    Since the societal costs of having yet another child being raised in a disfunctional environment are high, "Everyone benefits by having the state pay for abortions".

    The benefit from the military is from protection from being invaded by another nation. It does not take 1 Trillion dollars per year to do this. The warmongering path we have been on has not benefited us. It has seriously endangered our long term security.
     
  14. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    You don't sound much like a republican you are putting liberal arguments forward. Personal responsibility it the ticket. If you have 2 kids being supported by the state sterilization of the parents should be mandatory.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  15. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    Morally obligated? Buffalo chips I say.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do not know what Republicanism is .. do please spare me your ignorant attempt at pigeonholing.

    Forced sterilization ? Currently we do not allow this so this is not an intelligent response to issue of relative cost.

    Since we do not have forced sterilization - Abortion is the next best thing relative to the cost equation.

    When you wake up from your fantasy - and start to live the reality of what is possible given current conditions and law - let me know.

    You are the one that is a true "Liberal". You prefer higher welfare spending.
     
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    "Liberal " arguments ? I'm the one explaining how abortion keeps more people off the Welfare roles...YOU want MORE....
     
  18. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    Dream on. :rolleyes:
     
  19. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    I want people to take responsibility for their own actions.
     
  20. JusticeOne

    JusticeOne Active Member Past Donor

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    Forced sterilization should be allowed in some cases.
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Not according to the link I provided.

    If you disagree, post your own link.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You were the one living in the "forced sterilization" fantasy. Please do not transfer your delusional arguments my direction.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do not blame me that you did not comprehend your own link.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The USAF Intelligence Targeting Guide defines the term as the "unintentional damage or incidental damage affecting facilities, equipment, or personnel, occurring as a result of military actions directed against targeted enemy forces or facilities.

    How can you argue that "unintentional" actually means "intentional".?

    I^&$L
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they should also help rape victims, but if the rapist is caught, they should pay it back in restitution
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017

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