Putin suggests his plan to stop the civil war in Ukraine.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Yazverg, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Read more http://rt.com/news/184791-putin-ukraine-kiev-militia/

    What do you think. Why it is Putin who suggests such an idea? :)
     
  2. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    So I notice the lack of something here. Something like who is going to be in charge of this area.
     
  3. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Reasonable opinion. The one who establishes the peace is always getting the fame of peacemaker no matter what. People love peace and hate war in general. But that is not the reaction I was actually expecting from an american reader. Don't you notice something strange about it?
     
  4. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  5. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As always you will fail to provide any documental parallel, won't you? :)
     
  6. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Putin, as I noted in an other thread about a possible cease fire in the region, is leaving Pro-Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine to their destiny.

    I begin to see a kind of geopolitical withdrawal on the side of Moscow. May be at Kremlin they are realizing that the costs of this confrontation with the West risk to be too high for a fragile system of power like the Russian oligarchy.
     
  7. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Partly it is true. Russian oligarchs, thieves who prefer to rob russians and to spend money in developed countries are not happy with the conflict with the west. But their opinion is not that valuable in Russia. If one looked at the change of political system in Russia he would notice that classic oligarchs are out of the system. Berezovsky commited a suicide in London. His attempt to overthrow Putin funding 'winter revolution' failed. Khodorkovsky is released from prison and is actively working in western funds on democracy support, but that is too far away from russian society. A typical russian oligarch is mr. Sechin, a guy with KGB past, a guy who tries to pay more taxes and to act the way which is more profitable for the state... :) The love to all the western and neglectance of all the local has ended around the time of NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. Since that time the attitude towards west was changing to the level of a west-phobia which I regret to see.

    The isue is not that. Putin tells of a sane plan to stop the war and to restore peace. It would be difficult for the west and Ukraine to explain their citizens why the plan should be rejected. If the plan is accepted than it is a second conflict (after syrian) which was solved due to a personal effort of Putin... Who can allow this? :) But the suggestion will be rejected. It destroys the plan of the US and spends all its resources at no result. If it ends like this US would have about 30 mln hungry people to feed. Their only worthyness is their hatred towards russians. And in a country where 80% speak russian it will inevitably lead to continuation of civil war, but on a different territory. Russian zones will get more stable and after ukrainians get tired of killing, murders and assasination they would rejoin with Crimea and Novorossia.

    In fact I regard the words of Putin as a kind of throlling. The war in Ukraine will last until US doesn't have a plan of what else to do with Ukraine. And for the moment there are no guys in White House who are able and competent enough to plan anything else but chaos. That'ss my opinion.
     
  8. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    do i need it? the Czech senator did it very clear for everyone , 2 m. ago
     
  9. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    A link?
     
  10. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You could have a surprise about this ... there is a not so evident level of diplomatic communication in all is happening and I see a "window" for a point of meeting between the to competing sides.

    Let's wait and see ...
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    What opinion? That's a fact. Putin did not include who would be in charge. That's not peacemaking, that's kicking the can down the road.
     
  12. freemarket

    freemarket New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,310
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Funny how the only person in this that is talking about peace and stopped the Donbas from voting a referendum is being pegged as the aggressor. People don't seem to be very bright to not see what is actually happening here.
     
  13. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Putin like Hitler in 1930s: former Czech foreign minister

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/140303/putin-hitler-1930s-former-czech-foreign-minister
     
  14. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You only discredit yourself further with such hyperbolic nonsense.
     
  15. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    whats about Karel Schwarzenberg ? what he did do to himself?
     
  16. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Make himself look like a fool.
     
  17. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wolfgang Schäuble and the entire planet, except 11 losers Zimbabwe , North Korea , etc. ?
     
  18. Pronin24

    Pronin24 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    4,106
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the Putin's plan is only for reading in the West. This plan is totally lacking of any points to satisfy the fighting parties. Where are conditions for compromise? So much damage was caused and so many people killed and now, just stop the fighting? What Donbas fighters gained? What Poroshenko lost? I think both parties will not accept it as it is. Will Novorussia become recognized? Will any referenda be implemented in Ukraine? It seems hopeless to expect that the fighting parties would agree simply lay down their arms and start rebuilding peaceful life under rule of... who?
     
  19. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No more funny than a person talking about peace after he kidnapped one child and penetrated another in public view being pegged as an aggressor.

    Most pithily self aware comment of the year.
     
  20. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Was the metaphor too subtle for you?
     
  21. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Negotiations are the process between 2 parties. In this case it should be Poroshenko and the rebels' government. How can Putin or Obama possibly appoint the guy in charge of the negotiations? But his plan is a nice agenda to start off. Although I think that the real negotiations to finish the conflict need to be done between Putin and Obama. For Poroshenko will never disobey a command from the White House. Afterall I am sure that Poroshenko would need to follow Saakashvilli's example, for there is no future for him in any of the parts of former Ukraine.
     
  22. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Your first link dates back to march 31 and the second to March 3. Putin's agenda for peace negotiations appeared yesterday. September the 3rd. The opinion of former Czech foreign affairs minister has nothing to do with it or the theme. Please, don't make an offtopic in my themes. You have plenty of yours to call Putin a Hitler. But if your salary depends on spoiling the themes of others I would allow you spreading nonsense here as well. Afterall I would like you to live when your lies are exposed and your masters fail. You don't deserve death. :)
     
  23. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25,165
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    oh no, putler said nothing new, his final goal - Ukraine is a lose state is an easy to manipulate "country" with out any future .its clear that no one in Ukraine will ever agree with Putler´s "seven-point plan", which is exactlly the same with Hitler´s "peace plan" for Czechoslovakia . dont think that we are stupider then you guys
    ps
    "Accepting Russia's behaviour is not an option," Mrs Merkel says. She sees Russia as openly challenging the post-war European order
     
  24. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Litwin, I ask you to be exact. I understand that a cheap propagandist cannot be exact by default, but I want you to give it a try.

    Which one of the seven points has anything in common with any of the Hitler's ultimatum to Czech republic? 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5 6 or 7?
     
  25. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    So let me get you straight. You are saying that Putin wants peace, but leaves out the key question to why the civil war started in the first place. At what point there is that peace?
     

Share This Page