Putin Won't have it! WW2 was Wests' fault. Hitler was created and pushed to attack Russia.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by zoom_copter66, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    What "patriotic war" do you talk about exactly? That's one of those cruel lies like Arbeit Macht Frei.
     
  2. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a lie. Germany did not declare war on Sweden.
     
  3. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. Neither Germany nor Japan declared war on Sweden.

    Be more specific.

    What board is that?
     
  4. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

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    They lost so many because of their own tactics, and a complete disregard for their own soldiers lives; that is nothing to brag about, and not a reason to pretend they were anything other than hired help after Hitler drive them back; they were exhausted as a force, and would have had to sue for peace terms without the British aid that showed up in the nick of time. They had no hopes of recovery. Most of their industrial capacity was obsolete junk, and despite the weird and mythical notions, once they reached the Urals they weren't going to retreat any further, as any research into where most of their transportation network and population at the time will clearly show. Claiming they were some miracle working is what is stupid; they only remained in the war because the Allies paid them to.

    The Peanut Gallery can find much on Russian history themselves; not my job to run seminars on it for the uneducated and ignorant. Hint: You don't get that large by being a nation of non-agressive pot smoking hippies.



    You don't know much about any history, so I'm not concerned about your 'thinking'. You wouldn;t know if anything is being 'rewritten', but you might be interested, if you were into reading at all, that it gets 'rewritten' all the time, as new info is discovered and reproted on.


    More BS. They kept hiring themselves out to the Brits, French, and Spanish throughout their histories, and nobody trusted them, hence their being regarded as a dire existential threat by 'Everybody Else', even their own fellow native tribes. Their word was the joke, not ours; they had no concept of honesty and principles. The Sioux, for instance, wiped out countless tribes in building their big empire on the Plains, as did a couple of other large tribes to the south. The Cherokee made their lands a haven for bandits, murderers, and criminals of all kinds, including the Cherokee themselves entertaining themselves by 'independent' bands raiding and stealing forays into white farm lands.

    But keep watching those Hollywood movies; it's clear reality is not something you can live with without some sort of therapy or drugs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    At one stage EVERYONE was fine with Hitler, more or less. He got the country back on
    its feet. But it wasn't long before it became evident what "Nazi" meant. In the end even
    the German commanders renounced the Nazis. So the question always is - when did you
    change your mind?
    For Stalin it was only when Hitler invaded Russia.
    For many Americans it came later in the 1930's - one by one they dropped their support.
    And for many it wasn't Hitler they supported, but Germany they traded with. At some point
    there would be no more Hitler.
    In the end no American companies supported Germany.
     
  6. Tofiks

    Tofiks Active Member

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    So you offering me to search for facts, that prove your fantasies? And what if there is just nothing?
     
  7. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    This 'duck and cover.'
    If I was President of the US I would initiate a proper nuclear war program where you could
    evacuate all the big cities at a moments notice and somehow house, clothe and feed them.
    Given the military budget I reckon they could spend a few billion on such a vast undertaking.
    It's not if but when nuclear war will happen.

    Certainly Iraq and Syria were on their way to having the bomb. We can thank the Israelis
    for stopping them. But Iraq DID have WMD's, they used them regularly. Anyone believing
    Sadaam Hussein saying these chemicals were "tipped out in the desert somewhere" was
    the real fool - not those believing him.
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    Border alterations and land grabs. Sounds like Putin now.
    Germany was a defeated nation - they might not have liked their fate, but they were
    defeated. They weren't abused like they were when Stalin entered Germany. Sure,
    getting revenge on Germany is to be regretted, and is counter-productive. But that
    was the politics at the time - people were very angry, a whole generation of young
    men had lost their lives to the German machine guns and poison gas - in their own
    country.
     
  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I doubt you can smell anything with your Corona cold.

    What bias? lol
    You didn't prove me wrong what so ever. The effort the US put in, is just marginal.
    And that's what you can't stand. You American? I think so. Who is bias now?
     
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  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    None the less, the US is the co-writer of that treaty. And the US was opposed to that treaty, because it contained the ideas of the league of nations. That's it. It had nothing to do with not punishing Germany.
     
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  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Maybe when it broke out? How about that?

    The US signed a neutrality act, in order to chicken out of a war. That's no lie, buddy.

    You ask me that,... with putting the word English not with a capital e?
    And that sentence isn't even grammatically correct.

    Did in general.
     
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  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    We know. It is generally well accepted that the debt the Allied demanded from Germany for loosing the war, the territory the Germans were made to give up as was made up in the treaty of Versailles lead to WWII. The depression didn't cause it.
     
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  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Is your google broke? I mean... if you wanna participate, than don't sit idle by like the US did at the start of WWII.

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-1939-hitler-makes-first-call-for-jews-annihilation-1.5316931
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The claim was made that Germany started it.
    That claim is a fake western/allied narrative.


    The USSR was already successfully rolling back the nazi's for 1000's and 1000's of miles before that operation Bagration/Dday happened. That is marginalizing the importance of Dday. You could only argue that Dday speed up the fall of Germany back by a heck of a lot. But the USSR was going to win no matter what anyways. Hence, it's THEM who took Berlin. THAT made Hitler kill himself. THAT made the Germans surrender.

    All there is, is a utterly massive resentment to anything positive about the USSR and so especially Americans have a problem acknowledging their accomplishments.
     
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  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    As if Germans didn't loose people. And as you noted... revenge on Germany is to be regretted. But that revenge lead to the rise of Hitler. That's the generally well accepted chain of historic events. And so enter Putin, mentioning the blame of having WWII is one the west... which is in line of what is indeed generally well accepted as the truth. That Putin just happen to speak the truth for once... well you know... it happens. People should get over it.
     
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  16. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Newly Registered

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    You have no clue what you’re talking about. Out of the big four, Wilson was the most opposed to the harsh treatment of Germany, but in the end could not convince Prime Ministers, Clemenceau or Loyd George from their course. And, the United States Senate rejected the ratification of the Treaty of Versailles, and the US made peace separately with Germany. So no, the United States was not responsible for making Germany into a slave state, as you most dishonestly tried to state.

    Nice try.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  17. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Newly Registered

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    Yawn, keep chasing your tail. It’s abundantly clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about, and what you can’t prove with facts, you just make up.
     
  18. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Generally excepted !!!

    Go read read more history. That 'revenge' as you call it i.e. the Treaty of Versailles' and related events didn't cause the Russian Revolution. The revolution commenced in late 1917 before the end of WW1 and the collapse of the Central Powers, which occurred in late 1918.

    And Putin is no more or less than the bastard child of that revolution and the political system that arose from it. 'Blaming the West' for Hitler is just another part of Putin's standard catch cry regarding modern Russia's problems. Lets face it if he doesn't blame the evil West then who is he going to blame? Himself?

    And this doesn't mean the Treaty of Versailles played no role in the rise of Hitler, but so did a little thing called the Great Depression as well such things such as British appeasement, American isolationism, French indecisiveness, Russia's desire for strategic security when faced by threats to the West and East and let's not forget the German people themselves.
     
  19. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Newly Registered

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    Do you know how to read, I never said Germany declared war on Sweden.
     
  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    And exactly how is this relevant to who is to blame for the start of WWII?

    This is just a lame personal attack against Putin. That guy is probably smart as hell. He rose the ranks. Eventually appointed to be the head of the KGB, renamed to FSB. And you don't become the, basically, the dictator of Russia by sheer luck or being popular or some good PR team.

    We can't be having that you disagree with Putin on hand, to than somewhat agree with him... in a honest discussion. And the way you're ripping on Putin with a lame personal attack as in calling him a bastard child... get over it.

    I never read that historians claimed the Great Depression is a reason why Hitler rose to power. It has far more to do with things like this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_German_referendum
    It was about a Law against the Enslavement of the German People.
     
  21. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    So in September 1939 Russia and Germany declared war on poor Poland.
    And together these two evil empires conquered Europe.
    And Britian, France and America get the blame. Maybe we ought to toss
    in Australia, New Zealand and Canada too.
     
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  22. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    In anything to do with science or history you soon recognize that events have multiple causes.
    The list of reasons why people supported Hitler would be very long, this would include
    WWI
    Great Depression
    Germanic sense of destiny
    Contempt for other races
    Seduction by Hitler
    "Living space" argument about German agriculture
    etc..

    When people focus on ALL the issues they come across as historians
    When people focus upon just ONE issue they come across as politicals.
     
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It still is that the US is a co-writer of the Versailles treaty. And it has far more to do with the league of nations. The US never joined it. Looking at your reply,.. you're evading the reason why the Senate rejected it. Nice try. And exempting the US from turning it into a slave state, doesn't exempt the west.
     
  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I'm not asked to prove something. And you sure are not rebuking a thing with any sources.
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There is a great deal written about why Hitler rose to power, and the Great Depression is not there. Hitlers rise to power was already happening before the depression broke out. The contempt of other racs, destiny, and living space both have to do with Versailles. Versailles changed the borders / living space, changed the destiny of not having full self sovereignty, and the slaving ways of Treaty was blamed on Jewish bankers.
     

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