Putin Won't have it! WW2 was Wests' fault. Hitler was created and pushed to attack Russia.

Prussia is considered a German state. The German language was it's only official language.
But it's know that people also spoke Polish and Lithuanian in the original capital that now is part of Russia.

Yeah true.
But as for the rise of Hitler. It was just plane patriotism/nationalism... the appeal of getting the ancestral homeland of the German empire back....

 

You made it about the US when incorrectly stated that the US “enslaved “ Germany. Shall I quote you?

You: “WWII started because of the way among parties the US made Germany a slave state with a sky high debt “

 

I made the case that the US didn't do that much in WWII. And indeed.
The US co-wrote the Versailles treaty.
That makes it so that thanks to the US, there was a treat to be signed.
A treaty that was a main cause why Hitler rose to power.
What do you want me to do about this? lol

All you got is, but the US didn't singed it. So what.
Doesn't erase what the US did.
And the reason why they US didnt want to sign it,
was because they were against the league of nations.
They never joined it.

 

I agree that the Versailles was unduly punitive.

 

Consider the price of WW2 to the USSR
was ten times, yes 10x higher in lives, tanks, airplanes
than it was for the West.

Maybe Stalin & Putin are correct "The French" did not do enough.



Je me rends!
Je me rends!
I surrender!




Time to watch "Enemy At The Gates"

 

There's was nothing 'righteous' about them I wasn't talking about deeds so much as plain old boring commerce. Reading up on European history is interesting. The period 1880 - 1910 saw Germany and Europe as a whole make huge strides in science, industrialization and civil society. Prior to WW1 Germany had built its economy up to the point where it was the dominant industrial (and land military power) on the continent. It's manufactured goods and chemicals etc were in huge demand and being exported throughout the world. In fact in comparative terms it was arguably stronger economically than it is now and its share of world trade higher. WW1 ended all that.

With proper leadership and sans the Great Depression yes, I cant remember where I read it but an economic analysis of the pre WW1 western economies showed that the international trade in goods and services was a higher % of total trade prior to WW1 than anytime after it up until the 1990's (I think). That's how fast new technologies were letting trade globalize and how well Germany was doing. WW1 killed that growth for Germany and then the Great Depression killed it for the rest of the developed world because the first thing every government did was introduce massive protectionist measures for their own economies - making everything worse!

Hitler managed to kick start the economy again (to a degree) but there was no magic in that, any stable government could have done so. As for the depression??? opening up world trade in the absence of WW11 would have taken far longer than it did with WW11 but it still would have happened.

 

Wrong 1: You US didn’t write the Treaty of Versailles, none of Woodrow Wilson’s suggestions made it into the treaty, as well. Try logic, and being truthful.
It doesn’t matter what the motivation for not ratifying the treaty, the treaty didn’t get ratified.
Next, Germany and the US signed a separate peace treaty for Versailles, with no war reparations. Wilson was opposed to harsh demands on Germany. Nothing Wilson suggested, was apart of the Treaty of Versailles. Sorry your whole guilt by association argument is ridiculous. What don’t you understand about that?
How can I make it easier for you to understand?

 

1) WRONG part. "The League of Nations" was Wilson

2) Correct part. It was a French and British written document.
Especially "the French" wanted their pound of flesh!
Both wanted their "colonies".


Agree?

Meanwhile, the USSR bled more in "The Great Patriotic War" aka WW2
however you want to measure it, than The West!


Moi

Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.​

 

My husband said that Enemy at the Gates is horrifying. I won’t watch it.

 

Ok....Serbs killed their heir.....fact is Germany still lost. And paid for it.


Uhhh, I never walked from Moscow to halfway to Poland, and I'm not interested on how it " feels"? And it certainly isn't "thousands" of miles. Geography isn't your strong point I see.

Russkis didn't roll back the Germans on their own without US help.

US didn't border Germany, so only military losses not civilians.

 

The movie probably doesn't come anywhere near than the actual battle. Just gives one a rough idea.

 

Red Army purges?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Red_Army_Purge

 

That was an internal affair.
No Germans required.
Not even part of WW2
Just so very off topic. . . . .

 

They took place between 1939 and 1942.
“Meanwhile, the USSR bled more in "The Great Patriotic War" aka WW2
however you want to measure it, than The West!”

 

The Jews, Gypsies, Slavs etc played no part in the Versailles treaty.
I put it to you that the further a people were from that treaty the more
they suffered.
Hitler had a lot of admiration for the English - the ones who DID play
a part in that treaty. The treaty was just an excuse - it played no part
in the German economy of the 1930's in any case.

It makes little difference how you carve up Europe. Most are going
to be unhappy. Using history can be a minefield - would we give
half of France back to the English? What about the Norman conquest?
Who owns England, really?
(my family came across to England 1066 and held enormous land
holdings in Ireland - are they Irish, English, Norman, French?)

 

So we need to start rolling back history and find who owns what.
I am okay with that - I am a working class Australian who's family
held massive properties, castles and manors in Ireland - not to
mention in Normandy too. I want these back. But I don't want to
go too far back, I might have been poor in Scandinavia at some
stage.

Poland had borders. Germany violated those borders. If we don't
accept the borders we have now then it's open season for us all.
This is the issue with Putin seizing the Crimea.

 

If i will write book, where Hitler will receive help from aliens, you will believe to it too? And you read this book yourself? I'm not quite shure, because on my question to specify sources of information of this book you could not bring nothing except "search by yourself"

 

Yes and with such fickle loyalties. The U.S. on so many occasions has ridden the U.N. roughshod and (in the case of the illegal invasion of Irak) threatens to secede membership whenever the brat doesn't get its way. Mind you, it got its way in Irak (albeit by rogue, criminal intrusion à la Adolf Hitler) and was neither prosecuted nor awarded any sanctions against it yet it continues to disrespect the fundamental principles of the U.N. for - of all things - being weak!

 

Wilson had 14 points. One of them was the creation of Poland. That happened.
The ancestral homeland of Prussia, a very dominant German kingdom, lies in Poland.
That German king became the emperor of Germany. Wilson's idea was to rip it away from Germans.
Germans, with all their nationalism and patriotism, took it back in WWII.

Enter Putin... blaming the west for the rise of Hitler claim.
He has a good point. A point that is generally accepted as of why WWII happened.

You don't know your history, buddy. Wilson brought in 14 points.
Point 13 is creating Poland. Americans had a problem with point 14.
The erection of the league of nations. They never joined it.

 

So it's unreasonable for Germany to pay for just losing. It's generally well accepted that demands like Germany must pay and become a slaver nation, Germany may not have an army bigger than 100.000 people, Germany may not have an airforce... all lead to Germans supporting Hitler who put an end to all that totally insanity the UK/US/France demanded, and why WWII happened. And so, enter Putin blaming the west for the rise of Hitler.

The US did nothing without any bodies help either.
Point remains, the Russians did far more than the Americans.
The one who gives the biggest effort gets the most credit.
American, not even 1/2 a million dead.
Russia, almost 3 million POW died.

 

As noted. You seem very unaware what Versailles did to Germany and Germans. The French invaded Germany in 1925 because they bankrupted the slaver nation ... all in an attempt to make them give more money and natural resources. Parts of Germany remained occupied till 1935. Germans lost their ancient home territory of the most dominant German kingdom to Poland. That was all due to Versailles. That has everything to do with the rise of Hitler. Enter Putin that mentions that.

 

This is not about you, as an individual. This is about Germans as a massive ethnic group.

Borders made up in the treaty of Versailles, making the ancestral homeland of the most dominant kingdom of Germany not part of Germany. It would be like saying Washington DC is now not part of the US, but part of a new country for non American citizens,.. lets say... Latin Americans. A guy like Trump would invade it and take it back. You would think nothing of it.

 

The UN is only weak, because the victors of WWII made the UN Security Council.... with veto.
It's undemocratic and used to bolster own national interest at the expense of others.

The US is free to leave the UN and give that veto power up.
But it's too sweat of a deal.

 

At the time of Hitler's invasion Poland had distinct borders. Seeking to redress
what a nation consider historic grievances has no end. Nearly every border on
earth has been set in blood. To change a border, regardless of the reason, is
to shed more blood. This is the principle of modern international relations -
something Putin rejects for the greater good of Mother Russia.
Could you say Germany had claim to part of France? Belgium? So why then
occupy ALL of these nations? Why kill Poles who don't live in 'German' land?
Or exterminate their minorities?

 

Historic grievances? We're talking about just 30 years of retaking your own homeland back.
Also you're not responding to my example.