Question : Pro-lifers, Exactly How Would You End Elective Abortion?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Fugazi, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Pro-lifers, your chance to explain in detail how you would go about ending elective abortion.

    1. What measures would have to be enforced by the state in order to ensure that as many elective abortions were prosecuted as possible?

    2. By what means would the state be able to discover if a woman was pregnant?

    3. Would a pregnant woman be banned from travelling to a foreign country where elective abortion was still legal?

    4. Would states with the death penalty be allowed to use that in the conviction of a woman who "wilfully and premeditated with malice aforethought" obtained an illegal elective abortion?

    5. How would the state distinguish between and gather evidence of, a natural abortion (miscarriage) and an elective abortion?
     
  2. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    There is a book that might help set up such a workable scenario, it was written a while back but should still work, it I called My Struggle (Mien Kampf) should help get you started in how to control those women and punish those that do not comply. Good Luck, see ya at the War.
    I do hope did not help them too much, but they will at least be among like minded people.
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    To start with, the woman should be required to be shown an ultrasound, to SEE what it is she is choosing to abort.

    Maybe while the woman is waiting in the abortion clinic waiting room they could have a video playing about the fetal stages of development.
     
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    "To start with"" ??? What? You didn't address the OP....you are off topic....why? Can't think of anything else to say?
    Posting something ridiculous off your "if you haven't got a point then say something you've already said a million times "" play list???
     
  5. JP Cusick

    JP Cusick New Member

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    I do not like any of your options, and it is sad that you would think up those horrible terms.

    The better informed pro-lifers understand that the abortions are not really the fault of the mothers or the fathers (both parents count) as this is a product of our violent culture and our cold cruel society (just speaking about my USA here).

    What we do is punish all parents in the USA in ways like abusive Child Support laws and with punitive Public Assistance which denies benefits for the parents who have more children, and there is the truly nasty peer pressure, so the parents are pushed into either get an abortion or else get punished.

    And the debate about abortions is primarily focused on the very poor and working poor because they are the ones who need Public Funded abortions, and the richer people can always get anything medical with their big money.

    There is also the political reality that Americans all (huge majority) believe the lie that the world is over populated and so we need human population control (especially for minorities) so the abortion industry is far more about population control rather then just killing babies.

    Your idea that we just want to punish the mothers is just so very far away from reality.

    More in answer to your question is to end or greatly reduce the number of abortions would be by starting to treat every new baby as a blessing and give assistance to every new set of parents (both parents count) as like universal health care would help, and the poorer parents need to be given help with housing and food and baby stuff and with everything.
     
  6. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    I'm pro-choice but I find your questions extremely insulting to women and I've never heard the pro-life lobby endorse any of those.

    The best method is to keep abortion legal but to teach young women that they are much more than incubation machines. The problem (which is decreasing), stems from judgmental attitudes toward unwed mothers.

    But you - your post is asinine in that no pro-life group has ever suggested the things you created in your head. I have to wonder if these are not your actual thoughts.

    Fascinating.
     
  7. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    I think there should also be a limit to how many abortions you are allowed to get.
    The majority of abortions are due to a small number of "repeat offenders".
    A 3 strikes you're out rule.
    On the third abortion, the applicant has to sign a waiver authorizing tubal ligation, which will be performed right after the abortion, before she wakes up.
     
  8. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I suggest you look through the numerous posts by pro-lifers here in this sub-forum and you will see that what I have written is nothing that has not been stated by various pro-lifers at one time or another.

    Then you must be denying history, abortion has been part of human society for a very, very long time .. including the US .. The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE.

    That is contrary to what most pro-lifers believe, they are very vocal about the level of benefits given to people as being far to high and far to much, and no one pushes a prospective parent into an abortion.

    Another reason why banning abortion will only effect those who, probably, need it more than others.

    The world may not be over populated, the problem is that the resources are not evenly distributed, the lust for the dollar outweighs the need of those who do not or cannot provide enough to sustain themselves. Abortion has never been about population control, the only people who think abortion should be used to control the population are usually racists who want it imposed on minorities, or eugenics who want only the "perfect" to breed, and not wishing to start a semantics argument but there are no "babies" killed in abortion.

    so you do not want the state to have anti-abortion laws then, because if you do then while your intent may be for what you consider the good, the result IS controlling other people and forcing them to remain pregnant against their consent.

    Problem is that no matter how much you wish to treat every new baby as a blessing, for some it is not and that would remain a fact no matter the assistance given to them .. If pro-lifers really do want to reduce abortions then they should be supporting comprehensive sex education and free at source contraception - not just condoms either, but ALL contraception - ironic that for the most they don't support either. Citing the cost to them as tax payers is not a very good reason after all just how much is preventing an abortion worth to them.
     
  9. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Read a few comments from pro-lifers in this forum and then come back and tell me again how you have never heard the pro-life lobby endorse these things, or are the pro-lifers who post here not part of the pro-life lobby?

    Agreed, along with comprehensive sex education and free at source contraception (that is all types of contraception)

    I can assure you that not a single one of the things listed has been created in my head, I can quote the actual comments relating to the things listed if you want . .so no, not my actual thoughts but the thoughts of those who claim the pro-life banner as their own.

    Certainly is fascinating what lengths some pro-lifers are prepared to go to in order to enforce their ideology.
     
  10. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Why, are you restricted to the number of medical or surgical procedures you can have, if not why not?

    more BS from the king of BS

    Most women who have abortions (52 percent) have had no previous abortions, and 26 percent have had only one previous abortion. Considering that most women are fertile for more than 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high. - http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/04/23/10-worst-abortion-myths-and-how-to-refute-them/

    does the same apply to you?

    Still trying to enforce your desires onto others I see.

    Now will you stick to the topic or just continue to derail?
     
  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Anti-Choicers wish to make abortion illegal.

    The questions are apt.

    But never answered.
     
  12. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    I just told you I was pro-choice but you chose to continue along your militant march. You are not in-line with the majority of the pro-choice movement. Your agenda seems extremist and flame-baiting.

    There is a better way.
     
  13. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    Only fringe factions but they are generally pushed aside by more moderate factions that focus solely on gestational age, etc.



    Free contraception - absolutely.


    "Some," certainly, but not most - only the loud and vocal minority. But take the Catholic position, for example. They oppose abortion, and yet, they have in place options to help the young women, including good medical care and adoption services - or helping her if she keeps her baby. The RCC comprises the bulk of the pro-life lobby but they are shouted down by the evangelical minority that doesn't appear to care for the women.

    There are true differences.

    At the end of the day - it's about compromise and helping young girls feel empowered through sports, academics, the Arts, etc. They have to be able to see themselves in a future that does not depend on spreading their legs to "keep a boy" or having his baby. Planned Parenthoods set up shop in areas where poverty is high, because in those areas, hopes for a successful future are low. That's a toxic combination. Young women in these circumstances are in no shape to be having babies, and they need to understand that. We can teach them sex ed until the cows come home, but until the teachers can get it through their head how determental it is to get pregnant out of wedlock - we're going to have problems.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Could you point out what is extremist or flame baiting about the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxHastings View Post

    """"Anti-Choicers wish to make abortion illegal.

    The questions are apt.

    But never answered."""


    Every word is true.


    A "better way" for what?
     
  15. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    Some, but not all. While I agree that some are truly "anti-choice" most focus on restricting by gestational age, which is a far cry from your saying they want to "make abortion illegal." From my research, that's not really the case.

    As pointed out earlier - the questions are not just "not apt," they're intended to fan the flames over virtually nothing.

    In order to show that the questions are apt - you must first establish that a plurality of prolifers want to use the death penalty for women who abort, or that they want to ban travel, prosecute as many women as possible, determine whether a woman miscarried, etc.

    In reality - those questions are just about the dumbest I've ever seen and have nothing whatsoever to do with the issue. Truly silly.




    Every word is true.


    A "better way" for what?[/QUOTE]
     
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  17. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pro-lifers believe life begins at conception. Their ultimate goal is to make all abortion illegal, with a possible exception for the life of the woman (fetal personhood advocates oppose all exceptions). They approach their goal with incremental legislation, but the movement will continue until all abortion is criminalized.
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    In addition: Pro-Choicers in here have been repeatedly called "baby murderers" and women who have had abortions have been called murderers.....so asking Anti-Choicers if they want the death penalty for "murderers" is also quite appropriate.
     
  19. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    Not really.

    Here's the deal - virtually NO ONE is 100% prochoice, meaning you, yourself, probably have some sort of reluctance to some types of abortion.

    For instance, if a healthy baby was full-term (9 months gestation) and was due on Wednesday, would you think it's okay to abort it the day before? On Tuesday?

    Probably not, and even the strongest prochoicers regularly voice what they call their personal limits. Common sense dictates that somewhere between the extremists you mention and the forced abortions of China lies the best solution.

    The extremists on either side are not going to win. This is a game of give-and-take and compromise. Attacking such a small minority is counterproductive - just as it would be counterproductive to accuse you of wanting to abort healthy full-term babies.

    Everyone has their moral limits and everyone has a right to be heard. Then, and only then, can we make laws that serve the most of our citizens in the best manner.
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  21. JP Cusick

    JP Cusick New Member

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    Lots of nasty stuff are said anonymously on the Internet, and you make a mistake to view the worse ones as credible.

    I said - just talking about abortion here in the USA or in the UK but not in ancient times.

    The old Romans use to wait for the unwanted baby to be born and then stick a dagger into it as that did the job too.

    We today still have a violent culture and our cold cruel society, but we like our murders to be done less messy.

    My understanding is that you were asking us (asking me) for a solution and so I gave a solution.

    You did not ask what other people believed or wanted, and I do not promote their wants anyway.

    Those who oppose abortion while still punishing the parents who do have the baby are thereby being hypocritical.

    That is the political reality - abortion is being used as population control, along with the laws which punish those parents who do have a baby.

    In China they are a bit more honest about it when ordering just one (1) child per couple, but here in the USA we have to be more secretive and just get the parents to kill their own babies through the abortions and birth control.



    ==========================================


    I say that is because the only question being asking is are we Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion without any explanation.

    So here in a discussion then here we get to explain in detail.

    My comment # 5 gives details, link it HERE.

    And it is not anti-choice as it is about having better choices.
     
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You are confused, there were no "options" in the OP....there WERE questions.
    Questions based on what Anti-Choicers in here have posted .
     
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    """"""""""but here in the USA we have to be more secretive and just get the parents to kill their own babies through the abortions and birth control."""""""


    Please DO explain how "we" are secretive(1) and HOW do we "get parents to kill their own babies" (2)and how it is done using birth control ( how does birth control kill a baby??????????) (3)
     
  24. JP Cusick

    JP Cusick New Member

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    Call them options or questions or call them as optional questions - but it is still a barbaric and inhuman list.

    Nothing confused about that.

    If you and the OP sees that list as the reality then you and the OP are being misled.

    We must not let the opinions of barbarians to lead the discussions.

    The abortions are meant to be secretive, or call them as "private", as the two words (secret - private) mean the same thing for abortions.

    From the view of the high political leaders then providing birth control in all forms is just "population control" so from that view it is a political way of stopping or slowing the population growth (killing off the babies).
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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