Race and Crime

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Conservative Democrat, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Who are you talking to?
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with "being sentenced, and released."

    You are not able to show that the US government admitted to racism.

    This doesn't take into account re-offending.

    So if I provide 4 sources proving that racism does NOT play a role in the US justice system and in the US society as a whole, then we will be even?

    I said "yes" as in, YES you DID say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." Not, YES, I AM pushing a white fascists agenda!

    You wouldn't say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda" if you knew that I was black.

    You don't NEED to respond! You're already said I "got a point!"

    You said that the picture shows that "white people commit more crime than black people." That is false.

    Your source says "rates of drugs use." Not, rates of drug crime. https://www.hamiltonproject.org/cha...y_race_rates_of_drug_related_criminal_justice

    I'm not making any claim - YOU are! Your claim that racism is the reason that black people get longer sentences when arrested under the same circumstances and get out on parole later, remains TOTALLY unproven.

    What did I ask you to debunk?
     
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  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The HRW report has everything to do with being sentenced, actually.
    The American Psychological Association covers the entire US justice system.
    While you got nothing to rebuke.

    They say: According to the commission’s report, judges are less likely to cut black men a break than white men. White men were more likely to get their sentences reduced under the judge’s discretion than black men, and white men got larger reductions than the ones black men got.

    So you can perfectly well shorten this all to that they say that racism plays a big roll.

    The source says "including criminal history". So your wrong.

    Good luck in finding 4 better sources than Stanfort, HWR, The American Psychological Association and the US sentencing committee.
    So far you got nothing.

    You actually said: Yes, and how do you know that I'm not black?
    And so admitted to pushing a white fascist agenda.

    Living in alternative reality ended in 2020.

    [​IMG]

    A 4 year old can help you out with showing that the light green bar, representing the % of white people who commit drug related crimes is higher, than the dark one representing the black %.
    Stanfort university also concluded out of almost 100 million traffic stops that white people are more criminal.


    It's also about selling drugs. And it's simply criminal. You have no argument.

    You got the balls to deny this when I just sourced:
    According to the commission’s report, judges are less likely to cut black men a break than white men. White men were more likely to get their sentences reduced under the judge’s discretion than black men, and white men got larger reductions than the ones black men got.

    It's exceptionally clear the only distinction the US governmental agency is able to spot, is the freaking ethnic background. The American Psychological Association says there is too. While your opinion means nothing against my sources.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    The HRW report is specific to drugs.

    This is YOUR interpretation. The government doesn't say "racism", no matter how much you want it to be true! :roflol:

    I already said that the statistics surrounding longer sentences for black people doesn't mean racism and I explained why the data cannot be used to suggest racism. And you said that I "got a point!"

    You haven't provided an American Psychological Association source or a "Stanfort" source, although I assume that you mean "Stanford." I'll check them out if you provide them.

    You clearly completely ignored what I said in my last post. Read CAREFULLY this time! I said "yes" as in, YES you DID say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." Not, YES, I AM pushing a white fascists agenda!

    Thank you for proving that you were wrong to say that "white people commit more CRIME than black people." (Not specifically drug related crime.) I couldn't have proved it better myself! :roflol:

    Doesn't change the fact that your source says "rates of drugs use" not, rates of drug crime. So you want to say that there is NOT "a link between who does the crime and who gets arrested" while at the same time saying that there IS a link between rates of drugs use and rates of drug crime. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways! :roflol:

    Surely you cannot possibly suggest that there is no link between who does the crime and who gets incarcerated! So would you like me to provide incarceration data which shows that the prison population is over 38% black? I can do so anytime my friend!

    If it's so "exceptionally clear" then why doesn't the government say that it's racism?

    You wouldn't say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda" if you knew that I was black.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    And sentencing is part of it.

    You're just knee jerking around here as if treating black people harsher than white people under the same circumstances is somehow not racist, only because you can't find the word "racism" in it.

    You made no such explanation. It's happens under the same circumstances that black people get longer sentences than white people. The report is clear about it.

    I posted Stanford ages ago. And the APA was in post 274.

    Negative. You said "Yes, and how do you know that I'm not black?"
    And so you agreed you're pushing a white fascist agenda.

    If you want to go anal about if the drug was legal or not... it was not:
    white Americans try all drugs at a rate slightly higher than that of the overall population. White Americans also displayed comparatively high rates of experimentation with non-prescribed psychotherapeutic drugs (such as antidepressants and antipsychotics)

    https://www.vocativ.com/news/291203...drugs-black-people-serve-more-time/index.html


    It's about illegal drug use, and so a crime.


    Providing data about who got incarcerated is leaving out all the unsolved cases, not to mention cases that have not even been reported.

    When it literally goes without saying that treating people with different skin colors differently under the same circumstances must be considered racism, than you enter the room and fail to understand. The problem is obviously you, and that white fascist agenda you admitted to be pushing.
     
  6. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry for any confusion, I was addressing notme. he's on an SJW tear and no logic or reason affects him.
     
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  7. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but it's specific to drugs.

    I did. Right here:
    To which you replied:
    You also have to consider that judges have alot of discretion in sentencing. The sort of discretion which results in someone from a higher crime area being given a higher sentence than someone from a lower crime area. Black areas are higher crime than others.

    AFFIRMATIVE! You said, "I said you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And I said "yes" as in, YES you DID say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." NOT, YES I AM pushing a white fascists agenda!

    Besides, you said that I am, "pushing a fascist white agenda" all the way back in post #244! That was BEFORE I said what you think I said with the "yes" reply! So you assumed that I am white, given that you wouldn't say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda" if you knew that I was black! That's a hell of an assumption! :roflol:

    I'm not disputing that white people have higher drug use.

    Your source says "drug use", not ILLEGAL drug use.

    YOUR source provides incarceration data! I guess that leaves out all of the unsolved drug cases, not to mention drug cases that have not even been reported! :roflol:

    The report doesn't even talk in terms of "treating people with different skin colors differently." Treatment implies intent.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    So? I always said it was about drugs. You got no point.
    Sanford uni looked into almost 100 million traffic stops, and they concluded that white people got more infractions with the law in general than black people, yet black people are pulled over a lot more.

    So you're saying that we're NOT all equal before the law. Because how harsh you are sentenced depends on where you live....
    Sounds like I'm dealing with a person who writes nonsense articles for Qanon.

    Negative. You said "Yes, and how do you know that I'm not black?"
    We call all back and see that you indeed wrote what I quoted as reply.

    My source is all about illegal drugs. You should read it more thoroughly and spot it also mentions
    white Americans try all drugs at a rate slightly higher than that of the overall population.

    Your nitpicking ways are over, and it shows you got ill will and pushing that specific agenda I was talking about ealier.

    My source proves that the % of white people who use illegal drugs is higher, yet black people get arrested +300% more often over this.
    So my point is that white people get away with more unsolved drug cases by a landslide.
    So my point is that black people get longer sentences than white people for no reason.
    It's all part of institutionalized racism. The APA concurs that racism is present all over.

    It doesn't matter if it's intentionally or not. That's the gem behind institutionalized racism.
     
  9. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    they get arrested more because they commit more violent crime, which has been shown to you so many times I can't count.
     
  10. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So then there is only systemic racism for drug crime and traffic stops?

    You don't think that judges use discretion in sentencing?

    You said that I am, "pushing a fascist white agenda" all the way back in post #244! That was BEFORE I said what you think I said with the "yes" reply! So you assumed that I am white, given that you wouldn't say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda" if you knew that I was black! That's a hell of an assumption!

    So no mention of "illegal" then!

    No mention of "300%." It clearly shows that black people get arrested more, but it's not 300%! That would make the 'black arrests' bar in the bar graph three times the size of the 'white arrests' bar!

    Your source doesn't mention "unsolved drug cases."

    The report doesn't even talk in terms of "treating people with different skin colors differently."
     
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I also sourced the APA that racism there in the justice department.
    I also sourced HRW and the sentencing commission that black people are treated harsher than white people under the same circumstances.

    So I got 5 sources.
    You got zero.

    You're making no argument.

    You're desperately distracting with your point that I do not know what skin color you have, while the fact is... that you confirmed that you're pushing a white fascist agenda.

    My source talks about crack and cocaine. And here you claim as if it's not illegal and I do not have a point.

    Total pathetic knee jerk reaction.

    We did the math before.

    So what. You're not making a point.

    It says:
    According to the commission’s report, judges are less likely to cut black men a break than white men. White men were more likely to get their sentences reduced under the judge’s discretion than black men, and white men got larger reductions than the ones black men got.

    That you now claim this is not about treating people with different skin colors differently,
    is just a total knee jerking reaction... lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  12. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    You quoted the APA saying: "race plays a powerful role in how the general public — and, by extension, those in the criminal justice system." This is an opinion.

    I already explained what might be happening and you said that I "got I point."

    The argument is that judges DO use discretion in sentencing!

    Nope, already disputed. You just don't understand how to read English properly. I think that English may be your second language. Try to read it more carefully this time: You said, "I said you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And I said "yes" as in, YES you DID say that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." NOT, YES I AM pushing a white fascists agenda!

    And it doesn't change the fact that you assumed that I was white, given that you said that I am, "pushing a fascist white agenda" all the way back in post #244! :roflol:

    This page doesn't mention crack and cocaine: https://www.hamiltonproject.org/cha...y_race_rates_of_drug_related_criminal_justice

    Here is your RIDICULOUS math with no mention of 300%!:

    "16% of the black population uses drugs -> about 1.1% gets arrested -> 0.3% gets incarcerated statewide
    18.5% of the whites uses drugs -> 0.4% gets arrested -> make it 0.05 gets gets incarcerated statewide

    If things were proportionate, than 1.1/16*18.5= 1.3% should have been arrested. The difference between 1.3 and 0.4 actually 318%
    0.3/16x18.5 = 0,35. That difference is 693%."


    You said, "my point is that white people get away with more unsolved drug cases by a landslide." Where are you getting that from?

    It doesn't mean that it is BECAUSE of their skin colour! Again, earlier when I explained what might be happening you said that I "got I point."
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you're just making that one up. The link says It's founded on "a recent series of studies".

    And I sourced that they play their part in "race plays a powerful role in how the general public — and, by extension, those in the criminal justice system."
    But it just seems to be too difficult for you to understand.

    Pff... that's just a personal attack as if I don't "understand how to read English" properly. And you are adding words now to change the context and demand I follow it. I decline that flip flopping way, and stick to what you original wrote, which is confirming that you're pushing a white fascist agenda and question how I could have guessed your skin color.

    I never commented on your skin color.

    Pay attention... I already sourced that this page does:
    https://www.vocativ.com/news/291203...drugs-black-people-serve-more-time/index.html


    The + 300% figure is abut the arrest difference. That's what we're discussing.
    The almost 700% figure is the incarceration difference.

    If you refuse to pay any attention, than we're getting kind of done with this.

    I get that from the +300% difference in arrests made.

    You don't got a point there at all. This bit of judges giving white people simply less time for no reason, is about ALL cases made in the US as a whole. The APA underlines this as racist with "race plays a powerful role .... in the criminal justice system"
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Studies which are not cited.

    This sentence makes no sense. Either "THEY play their part", or "RACE play a powerful role." It cannot be both.

    No, I'm adding words to explain what I meant, because you are clearly having some trouble!
    Again, you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And I said "yes" as in, YES you DID SAY that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." Now, IF you had instead said, you're pushing a white fascists agenda, and I replied YES, then it would mean that I was saying "YES" as in, YES, I AM pushing a white fascists agenda! They key is that you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And in case that's STILL not clear enough for you, the key is "I SAID", as in YOU said! It was YOUR claim! And I said "YES", acknowledging that it was in fact your claim!

    Well only a white person would be involved in "pushing a fascist white agenda", which is what you claimed I was doing!

    The problem you have is that drug USE doesn't correspond to drug ARREST! Can you show that less white people than black people are arrested for drug crime?

    Then why is the 'black arrests' bar in the bar graph not three times the size of the 'white arrests' bar?

    What does the +300% difference have to do with "unsolved drug cases?"

    Then why did you say that I "got I point?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You're busted of wrongfully claiming it's just an opinion.
    And now you're busted of wrongfully claiming it's not cited.
    It's even freaking linked within my source.

    "race plays a powerful role in how the general public — and, by extension, those in the criminal justice system."

    more knee jerking reactions.... from somebody... "understand how to read English"

    You deny that you're adding words,... to than admit you're adding words, and repeats adding words to change the context. lol

    I made it my POINT that drug use doesn't correspond to drug arrest and I proved that in that graph with that +300% difference.
    We both did that math.

    3 times 0.4 white arrests equals 1.2 arrest. Black people are at 1.1, actually. So that's almost there.
    Add the fact that white people punch above their weight with drugs used... and you end up with +300%.
    We both did that math.

    You failed to prove your point with unsolved violent crimes, but you forgot your own point so it seems.
     
  16. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean the below?

    "A recent series of studies published by the American Psychological Association, for example, found that people are more likely to see black men as larger and more threatening than white men, even if the black men are not actually larger."

    What does this have to do with the criminal justice system?

    Also, since you accept anything that you're told by TRASH media such as Vox, and by random studies cited in the media, here is something for you:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000470

    "No evidence of racial discrimination in criminal justice processing"

    Why are you cutting out parts of the quote?

    You said that I was "adding words now to CHANGE the context." That's not what I'm doing. I am adding words to EXPLAIN the context! The context hasn't changed! I simply have to do my best to get you to understand the English language! Again, you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And I said "yes" as in, YES you DID SAY that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." Now, IF you had instead said, you're pushing a white fascists agenda, and I replied YES, then it would mean that I was saying "YES" as in, YES, I AM pushing a white fascists agenda! They key is that you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And in case that's STILL not clear enough for you, the key is "I SAID", as in YOU said! It was YOUR claim! And I said "YES", acknowledging that it was in fact your claim!

    Look. I acknowledge that white people do more drugs but are incarcerated less than black people. However, I do not accept that this is because of racism. None of your sources say that!

    And yet you cannot find a source which backs up your +300% figure!

    Your the one who first mentioned "unsolved" cases!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Seems obvious that it has everything to do with it, from a cop fearing for his life when he sees a black man, to a judge thinking the public must be protected from threatening people.

    You're in no position to debunk APA.


    So you found a handful of dissidents vs the entire American Psychiatric Association, HRW and Stanford.
    And you think this is going to impress me? That's mighty bold.

    You're just adding more text to alter the context.


    You flat out have refused to acknowledge the expertise of the American Psychiatric Association, HRW and Stanford... with absolutely nothing to back it up in order to deny that there is any kind of racism going on. And only NOW you got like a handful of dissidents from 1 source. It changes absolutely nothing. It's a total joke of an argument. You lost the argument, horrible.

    You even went as low as when reading that black people got longer sentences than white people under the same circumstances, that you refused to accept that racism was it... while ONLY the skincolor was the difference. Pathettic.

    We already did the math.

    Because you failed to spot it, when you ONLY dragged in who got arrested the most for violent crimes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I guess it doesn't matter WHAT sources I cite, you're not going to think that they're as good as American Psychiatric Association, HRW and Stanford! :roflol:

    The context hasn't changed! I am adding words to EXPLAIN the context! I simply have to do my best to get you to understand the English language! Again, you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And I said "yes" as in, YES you DID SAY that I'm "pushing a white fascists agenda." Now, IF you had instead said, you're pushing a white fascists agenda, and I replied YES, then it would mean that I was saying "YES" as in, YES, I AM pushing a white fascists agenda! They key is that you said, "I SAID you're pushing a white fascists agenda." And in case that's STILL not clear enough for you, the key is "I SAID", as in YOU said! It was YOUR claim! And I said "YES", acknowledging that it was in fact your claim!

    I thought that those sources were not specific to drugs, but about sentencing more generally. I can see the the HRW source is specific to drugs, but the APA source isn't. And I'm not sure about the Stanford source, as I lost the link to it and I wasn't able to track it down in the thread. Perhaps you can supply it again.

    If higher crime areas are treated harsher by judges, then this will result in harsher sentences for black people.

    You cannot find a source which backs up your math!

    What would it have to INCLUDE in order to be acceptable to you?
     
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  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You're just whining now that I indeed got exceptionally high quality sources, proving that institutionalized racism is rather present in the US.
    You lost the argument. Bohoo...:roflol:

    You're adding a heck of a lot of words to change the context.


    Stanford looked into almost 100 million traffic stops, concluding that black people are stopped far more often while white people have more problems with the law, and it adds that the % of how many black people stopped at night is significantly lower because it gets hard to see if a black person is behind the wheel.

    I am going to cast this UNFOUNDED opinion aside, because it remains unfounded.
    The opinion of HRW stands. You got to be kidding me that you know best. Get real.

    we both did it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  20. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Stanford did NOT look into 100 million traffic stops, that's hilarious. Since probable cause is required to initiate a violator contact, those black people who were stopped had committed a crime. That's the probable cause part, which you don't understand. man, that's funny.
     
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I read something about black people getting stopped LESS at night when the driver cannot be identified. What do you suggest that is about?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021 at 3:27 AM
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Exceptionally high according to who?

    Once again, you don't know that I'm not black, yet you accused me of pushing a white fascist agenda! :roflol:

    I found your link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1

    Why doesn't it mention racism in that article?

    The HRW study is specific to drugs. And you still apparently think that judges DO NOT use discretion!

    Meanwhile, here is another study: https://www.ojp.gov/library/abstracts/no-racism-justice-system

    What would it have to INCLUDE in order to be acceptable to you?

    What the hell are you talking about? I had nothing to do with YOUR math!
     
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  23. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    I would guess that the guys making the traffic stops decided that pulling over some people would, in all likelihood, result in some sort of kerfuffle.

    True story, back in the day the FBI would come out to large police departments and sheriffs offices and teach, get ready for this, "profiling for traffic stops" and this was in the 90's. It turns out if someone looks the part and you have probable cause to stop them...you get a criinal off the street at a great ratio. Imagine that, catching criminals...
     
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with night time?
     
  25. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Black tinted windows at night make it hard to see the driver.
     

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