Racist White Boys

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by edna kawabata, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I literally just said that. It is just a theory and you do not have to agree. I like his theory a lot though and it really does a great job in explaining the question you are raising in this thread.

    This is simply not true. A child that comes from a household of love would respond to "Hey, wanna go smoke cigarettes?" with "Ewww, no!"

    Peer pressure is real though and we now, as I pointed out, live in a society where children are only around people of their own age until they hit their mid to late 20's which means there is a big risk of being eaten up by the forces of peer pressure.

    Human beings are not supposed to live in the large scale societies in which we live today. We evolved to live in very small groups. We are certainly not made to live in large nation states with daycares and Tinder.

    That is only 0,00001% of the answer. Yes, new technologies give them the oppurtunity to find these toxic ideas and to interact with other people who share those ideas, but the real question to ask is what it was that drove them there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  2. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I feel like I'm whipping a dead pony, but I'll try to clear up a few points....

    My statement "your friend, Rene Girard, would disagree that man is inherently violent. He would say that is mimetic behavior." and your response, "Yes, I literally just said that." was a bit confusing, but I'll stick with your repeated belief that man is inherently violent. A bogus belief. The vast majority of normal humans lead peaceful lives and only resort to violence in extremis. The view that man is inherently violent is coming from the cynical bias of the viewer and not backed up by evidence.

    The rise of racist white boys is due to a lack of parental kisses and hugs is another bogus belief. Even if true there is no way to control that in the general population, but parenting has changed over time. Fathers are more engaged. Children are heard as well as seen. Corporal punishment is rare. Generally children are treated better by parents than they ever have been in the past. Peer influence is a strong thing to the vulnerable adolescent. Having an open private virtual venue where young men can vent and have an accepting peer group, if they can conform to the group's belief system then things can easily turn toxic. Trends of subgroups have changed over time. You had beat nicks, hippies, punks, goths...few were hate based. I may still feel like a hippie, but with that I don't bring hate. These young men may continue be a neo-Nazi as they get to my age and that is sad for them and those around them.

    Your initial comment was "Just let them be racists." No. I do think it is a trend that will eventually die out. Unhealthy trends generally do, but I would like to help it along.

    You may find this interview interesting: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/parents-peers-children/
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  3. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Yes because over time, we realised it made more sense to co-operate and thus developed structures, institutions, norms and taboos to surpress that inner ape and instead incentivise more peaceful behaviours.

    I never said it was the result of the lack of physical touch. I very specifically said neglect can be experienced in very different ways and sometimes it only takes something very minor to trigger that feeling. Parenting has indeed changed and that is what I have been trying to say all this time.

    Are they though?

    Are they really? Or are they just being handed tablets and iPads to shut up?

    Is it really? Far too many parents use bullying tactics such as yelling, blaming and various forms of violence as their parenting strategy.

    That is a very gutsy statement and something that cannot even be quantified.

    If kids are being treated better than ever before and corporal punishment is dead, how come we have vulnerable White boys who seek conformity in the virtual world instead of in the household, school and neighbourhood?

    Yes, the sub-cultures that were around when the Boomers were young were not centred aroumd hate to the same extent as those of the contemporary youth and this goes against everything you said about the improvements of parenting and childhood.

    If parenting and childhoods are so much better, then why do Millennial White boys hide in the virtual world? Why do Millennial women become Radical Femimists? Why do Millennial Blacks join the police-hating BLM? Why do Millennials look for love on Tinder and why do so many Millennial men turn to "inceldom" for comfort?

    Your reasoning makes no sense.

    My case is, yet again, not that every parent is a bad parent. But, our brains a very sensitive and it is very important that both parents and children can acknowledge something went wrong somewhere without attaching any blame to it.

    Help it by helping your kids, the kids in your family and the people you genuinely care about. No one is a superhero, so it is pointless to aim at "saving the world".

    I will read and comment on it later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  4. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I know that it might be a bit pompous for someone who is not a parents to give lectures on how to parent, but this is just such a nonsensical assessment. A parent's job is to protect their child(ren) and although there are many "right ways" to rare a child, there are just as many wrong ways.

    Well, duuuuh. This is the exact reason I always disregarded Gender Studies as complete and utter bogus since it completely throws biology out the door claiming everything is "sociology". What is presented here is not world-changing news, anyone with a picnh of common sense knows that genetics matter and that you therefore cannot shape your child to anything and everything. However, excusing bad parenting with "muh genetics" is just a failure and refusal to recognise one's own mistakes.

    Yes and this means parents in general keep making the same old mistakes their own parents did. I think it is common for every parent to think to themselves "I will not be like my own parents" and then they end up doing the exact same thing their own parents did. Reduction in physical punishment does not mean reduction in punishment and just because physical punishment declines, it does not mean parenting improves - There are many ways to fail your children. My personal belief is still that experience of neglect is the biggest problem.

    RIP Feminism. :laughing:

    Oh, piss off! What an useless and appalling excuse to save bad parents from blame. Projection on steroids.

    Yeah, that little interview did not really provide anything new to the discussion and if anything it just further denied the role of parenting. It did one thing right though and that was proving my case; Millennials are in school from the age of two or sometimes even as young as one (daycare) meaning Millennials have been exposed to this school group-peer-pressure almost since the day they were born. A sign of a very toxic culture that breeds toxic individuals.

    Anyone who denies the role parents is to be shunned and shamed, in my opinion.

    "Yes, I did not really talk much to my child and did spank them, but it is not my fault they turned out how they did - They had genetic predispositions for addiction!" "Not my fault. It is the teachers who are to blame!" Such a vile and disgusting rationalisation. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  5. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I think it is very common for a household of, say, three children to have three different and unique experiences of parents and childhood because - afterall - we are all individuals. I think it is not rare for one subling to claim it was bad and for the others to ask "Eh, what household did you grow up in?" This is where it is important not to disregard the experiences of the child who saw it differently as false or wrong.

    I think it is especialy difficult for parents to admit their own wrongs and to refuse to co-operate. Once the wound is there, it is there, but instead of adding layer of band.aids upon layer of band-aids, one should try to find out from where that wound comes and then fix it from there.

    I also think that many parents are very hypocritical in the way they raise their children - They will say one thing, but themselves do the exact opposite. Scolding your child for scolding his/her friend does not make much sense. Children do mimic their parents because their parents is their first and primary interaction with the world.

    "Don't hit!" is a useless lecture to give your child if you yourself hit your child because children are not stupid. They might even tell you "But, you do it too!" If your friend makes a mistake, most adults would not scream at them or hit them. But, these same adults won't hesistate to use force against their own child who is five times smaller than them. I have heard way too many parents admit having used force against their child and excuse it with "Sometimes it is necessary."

    When I have asked them if they would do the same to a friend they go full-defense mode and say; "Don't be silly! That is not even the same thing!" But, is it really that different?

    As I have already said too many times now, my generation grew up with and around kids. So, we were pretty much raised by our peers. In a daycare group you have two teachers and 40 kids who all compete for the techers' attention. In school, you have 40 kids and only one teacher. At home you have chatrooms and smartphone apps where kids interact with other kids. Even something as basic as a family dinner is fading out of popularity; Children and parents eat on seperate times and/or have their dinner in seperate rooms. Us Millennials do not really interact with real adults until we are adults ourselves and start working and then it is too late because we reached adulthood without interacting with adults.

    "Family time" in general is dying out and is even laughed at and ridiculed in contemporary culture.

    Let children play with each other and let them learn things on their own, sure. But, also make sure to be a good and principled role model and make sure to always be there for your child. Interact with them, do not underestimate their intelligence, be engaged and do not think that children cannot tell preference from principle.

    I think far too many couples have children out of love thinking that will be enough and then once they have children, they notice they are not compatible and think it is fine to get divorced because "me, me, me". Guess what? It is not about "me, me, me", but rather about "we, we, we".

    I don't know. It seems pretty darn basic to me - If you want to be a parent, then be a friggen parent. Again, I know that I am being a bit too boasty, loud and opinionated without being a parent myself. But, I do not claim to sit on the full and absolute truth; I draw my conclusions from my own common sense, my own introspection and readings and my own experiences of my generation :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  6. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    On peer vs parental influence:
    "Do parenting behaviors have any lasting effects on child outcomes? Vandell (2000) views parenting effects as "conditional" (p. 700), but the evidence for conditional effects is no more convincing than the evidence for main effects. At best, one can answer this question only with "not proved." Despite herculean efforts by researchers, the efficacy of parenting has still not been proved.

    Also not proved is the proposition that children learn things from one relationship or in one context that they automatically carry with them to new ones. A good deal of evidence supports my proposition that learned behavior is tailored to fit specific relationships and contexts. The implication is that if parenting behaviors do have lasting effects, the effects are specific to the context in which the behaviors were experienced. Because children are destined to play out their adult lives in other contexts, what they learn in these other contexts will be more important in the long run. Thus, the answer to the question "What are the experiences that do have lasting effects?" should be sought outside the child's home and family of origin.

    The alternative view of development I have presented is not in accord with people's firmly held beliefs, but firmly held beliefs can get in the way of scientific inquiry. There is a large volume of evidence (I have only scratched the surface of it here) that does not fit the prevailing view. Group socialization theory can account for that evidence because that is what it was designed to do. Whether it can account for evidence produced by future research remains to be seen."
    https://judithrichharris.info/tna/devpsyjh.htm
     
  7. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Black kids are killing each other by the hundreds every weekend, and some pseudo-intellectuals are worried about a demographic of dumbass Burb Brats so tiny no one would notice it if it weren't so important for the propaganda campaigns of left wing racists and their 'ethnic cleansing' agenda they sell to latinos and blacks both.
     
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  8. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    US right-wing extremists have killed 330 innocent people in the last decade and you don't care.
     
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  9. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, keep avoiding the obvious self-inflicted defects in a large chunk of 'black culture', and keep your gang bangers happy.

    330 in a decade? How does that stack up against the average week in Chicago or Baltimore, exactly?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  10. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Apples and oranges. Two separate problems. Increased incidence of violence is a problem when living in poverty no matter the race, and always has been, but blacks have a greater percentage living in poverty because of systemic racism. The body count has escalated because of the easy availability of guns and societies lack of will to do anything about it.

    It is a different problem than internet radicalized white boys which has different causes and cures.
     
  11. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol like I said, make a giant mountain out of tiny mole hill, and avoid your real issues, and throwing in 'poverty' doesn't change a thing I said, nor are the number of guns a cause of anything, it just makes you look more desperate to deflect form black people's own self-inflicted cultural problems.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  12. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Nope, it is more like if I bring up the fact that smoking cigarettes kill and then you say but car accidents kill more people....what has that to do with OP? Who is trying a desperate attempt to deflect? What is this "ethnic cleansing" agenda you speak of and did you learn of it on social media?
     
  13. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    what self inflicted cultural problems are those you speak of?
     
  14. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Trump refused to denounce QAnon. A group radicalized via the internet and now becoming a terrorist threat along with the boogalosers per the FBI.
    Trump has praised and congratulated Q friendly politicians.
    Per QAnon theories Trump is allegedly saving the nation from a satanic cult of child sex traffickers, Trump claimed ignorance, but asked, “Is that supposed to be a bad thing?”
    We have 13 right-wingers arrested, egged on by Trump, attempting to kidnap and probably kill a governor.
    It seems Trump is a national security threat.
     
  15. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    How the hell can he denounce a group which he doesn't know anything about? Anyway, even if he DID know all about it, he wouldn't be any worse than Biden, who refuses to condemn antifa, and in fact COVERS for them, saying that it's just an "ideology."

    Can you support your claim that the FBI considers QAnon a terrorist threat?

    Are you suggesting that these "Q friendly politicians" are TERRORISM friendly politicians?

    What's so bad about that theory? And considering everything that we know about child sex trafficking, the fact that we KNOW it exists even in the US (Epstein), why is it such an unbelievable theory?

    "Egged on by Trump?" They HATE Trump! They came out against him! :roflol:

    Uh, no, that would be non-peaceful BLM and antifa pieces of human waste on the streets burning crap! Get it right!
     
  16. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Do we have here the Q ambassador?

    Trump has been told many times what they are and he says "well I don't know that". The group believes a pro-Trump conspiracy theory involving a “deep state” of child-molesting Satanist traitors who are plotting against the president and you think Biden, who said when Asked by reporter Barbara Barr, “Do you condemn Antifa?” Biden responded, “Yes I do—violence no matter who it is.” is just as bad?

    You ask what's so bad about QAnon's theory and Biden is just as bad? Someone has their priorities messed up beyond repair.

    The FBI reportedly has dubbed QAnon, which Trump has praised and several Republican congressional candidates had voiced support for, a domestic terrorism threat.

    Trump called Whitmer a "dictator" and tweeted "Liberate Michigan" and you wonder why a group of right-wingers would choose her to kidnap and put on "trial"?

    BTW the FBI director called antifa an "ideology" not a group.
     
  17. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    He did? What a moron. :laughing:
     
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well he's correct, it's not technically an organisation, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that many who self identify with the antifa movement are domestic terrorists, and the FBI director acknowledges that.
     
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I dunno. Do we?

    Why the hell should Trump believe what he is "TOLD" by people who despise his guts?

    Do you believe that pedophilia, Satanism and child trafficking exist? Or will you dodge this challenge? I wonder...

    Okay, so now that more than five seconds have passed since he gave that answer, it no longer applies, so will he be asked again and again? This after all is the media's standard which they used against Trump. Also, should he really have been ASKED in order to SINGLE OUT antifa human waste which are the instigators of this anti-racism violence?

    Nope, I didn't ask "what's so bad about QAnon's theory", I asked "why is it such an unbelievable theory?" I asked that in light of the fact that we KNOW that child sex trafficking exists even in the US (Epstein.) Do you deny that?

    Your source says "reportedly." That's lazy journalism. Can you do any better than that? A DIRECT source perhaps? I think that you're going to struggle with this.

    You're not hearing me - THEY HATE TRUMP! They came out against him! :roflol:

    What's your point?
     
  20. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this is getting weird.

    You begin by falsely accusing Biden and using that to say its as bad as Trump not condemning QAnon. And it is never uphill from there. I guess Trump doesn't read or is not briefed on national security matters so he is completely unaware of QAnon (you'd believe that) and by the way here is the FBI document warning police agencies that QAnon is a potential terrorist threat (wasn't hard to find with google).
    Maybe Trump gets asked repeatedly about his views on the far right is because his answers change repeatedly.

    You think that a deep state cabal of Democratic satanist pedophile traitors who are plotting against the president is not such an unbelievable theory? Then you are a goner, reason has left the building.

    Show the Wolverine Watchman were anti-Trump. One guy, Caserta, not a leader, made a video denouncing Trump. "Two of Caserta's alleged co-conspirators, Pete Musico and Barry Croft, posted pro-Trump messages on social media, according to the Daily Mail. Croft in 2017 praised Trump as "inspiring," while Musico appeared a YouTube video wearing a black "Trump 2020 Keep America Great" hat, "We need to get away from the controllers of this country and become America again that's what Trump wants," Musico posted on May 8, 2016, on his still-active Twitter account."
     
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I'm winning the argument - there's nothing "weird" about that! It's quite normal actually!

    I confess that I didn't know that Biden was asked if he condemns antifa and answered "yes", however, I would hardly call that a solid condemnation, as he immediately went on to say that he condemns "violence on both sides" as if to say that antifa are no worse than right wing groups such as 'Patriot Prayer', which are NOT the instigators in the violence that we've been seeing this year, given the fact that BLM protests are LEFT wing. So I stand by my claim, that Biden hasn't condemned antifa, as I don't consider his answer sufficient, and neither does the left wing media if they're applying a SINGLE standard, but of course they're not - they much prefer a DOUBLE standard: one rule for Trump and another rule for Biden.

    Do you really think that Biden should need to be ASKED if he condemns antifa? Or should he do it without asking, just like he does when he condemns right wing and white supremacist groups? Why do you suppose he only does this for right wing and white supremacist groups?

    Don't you believe it too?

    No, the FBI is NOT calling QAnon ITSELF a potential terrorist threat. Which part are you referring to?
    I'm guessing that you didn't actually read the FBI document itself, but are rather referring to something in the Yahoo article.

    Do you think that Trump has condemned white supremacy?

    SPECIFICALLY Democrat? You're wrong. The theory is not specific to the political ideology of the "cabal of satanists." Does that make the theory any more believable to you?

    Okay, so nothing about Trump inspiring them to kidnap the Governor. So what the hell is your point exactly?

    What's your point?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  22. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a growing list of errors and self-delusion on your part.

    What's the point you ask? You are critical of Biden calling antifa an "ideology" when that is how the FBI defines it and saying Biden never condemned them. False claims.

    But you don't think he has condemned them enough to your satisfaction is what you are going with now? That is subjective and you can move the goal posts wherever you want. It seems you follow the Trump game plan, when asked about white supremacists pivot to antifa and make them more threatening then they actually are.

    You said the Wolverine Watchman were anti-Trump. Another falsehood. The founder is a Trumper and you don't think Trump tweeting LIBERATE MICHIGAN and calling Whitmer a "dictator" was not egging them on? What ev.

    Another false claim is the FBI is not calling QAnon a threat. Nope, the FBI is calling QAnon a potential terrorist threat in the Intelligence Bulletin sent to law enforcement. It uses crimes by QAnon believers as examples of the threat. It is named in the list of groups in the appendix that law enforcement needs to watch.

    When Trump was asked during the debate if he condemned white supremacy he hemmed and hawed until Biden said "Proud Boys" (not a white supremacist group), so no he didn't condemn them when he had a chance on a national stage.

    You say I am in error for including "Democrat" when I defined QAnon as a cabal of deep state Democratic satanist pedophiles against Trump even though that is the way it is defined by other sources. Okay, it sounds like you know more about them than I and find their beliefs credible. Does the cabal actually eat babies?
     
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  23. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    Not getting laid.
     
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  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    By all means, denounce ANTIFA. And while you're at it, denounce BLM for exactly the same thing.
     
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  25. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sorry for parachuting in, but that was my first thought, that post seemed to describe antifa to a T.
     
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