Rain fell at the normally snowy summit of Greenland for the first time on record

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Durandal, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Another sign of how rapidly the climate is changing, and as you can see, the changing weather further accelerates the climate change process since all that rain has in turn accelerated Greenland's ice loss:

    Rain fell at the normally snowy summit of Greenland for the first time on record

    (CNN)For the first time on record, precipitation on Saturday at the summit of Greenland — roughly two miles above sea level — fell as rain and not snow.

    Temperatures at the Greenland summit over the weekend rose above freezing for the third time in less than a decade. The warm air fueled an extreme rain event that dumped 7 billion tons of water on the ice sheet, enough to fill the Reflecting Pool at the National Mall in Washington, DC, nearly 250,000 times.

    It was the heaviest rainfall on the ice sheet since record keeping began in 1950, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center, and the amount of ice mass lost on Sunday was seven times higher than normal for this time of year.

    ... https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/weather/greenland-summit-rain-climate-change/index.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
    Bowerbird, Melb_muser and Cosmo like this.
  2. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    1,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Haw haw haw, A single day doesn't a climate change make. it is silly but that is what climate worriers are about.

    Here is scambos making a fool of himself making political based statements:

    "Ted Scambos, a senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado, said this is evidence Greenland is warming rapidly.


    "What is going on is not simply a warm decade or two in a wandering climate pattern," Scambos told CNN. "This is unprecedented."

    =====
    A SINGLE day of rain and he goes crazy, ha ha ha....

    Greenland isn't warming rapidly, it another lie they and the media throws out hoping to fool the science illiterates out there.

    [​IMG]

    LINK
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  3. skepticalmike

    skepticalmike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    447
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    This NASA link will show that Greenland has warmed substantially since 1990. Greenland was also very warm in the 1930's and early 1940's.
    There may not be any significant change in the average surface temperature over Greenland from 2010 to 2020. 2010 was a warm year.
    You can click on to the time series and see how the Earth's surface temperature has changed from 1880 to 2020.

    Global Temperature | Vital Signs – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet (nasa.gov)
     
    Bowerbird and Cosmo like this.
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In Greenland it has been warmer before.
    New Study: Retreating East Greenland Glaciers Uncover Plant Debris Dating To The 16th – 17th Centuries
    By Kenneth Richard on 19. August 2021

    Share this...
    Exposed moss and willow shrubs buried beneath today’s receding East Greenland glaciers can be dated to 400 to 500 years ago, suggesting this period (the early Little Ice Age) was as-warm or warmer than today.
    It is widely accepted that Greenland’s surface temperatures were several degrees warmer (McFarlin et al., 2018, Axford et al., 2021) and ice volume and extent much smaller (Nielsen et al., 2018, Weiser et al., 2021), throughout nearly all of the last 8,000 to 10,000 years.

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Weiser et al., 2021 . . .
     
    Sunsettommy likes this.
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is no "the climate". Earth has MANY climates.

    Climate is not a quantifiable term, so how does climate "change" exactly?? Is there more climate now?? Less climate?? Is a desert climate no longer a desert climate?

    You haven't shown me anything.

    Weather changes all the time. So?

    Define "climate change". Describe precisely how a climate "changes", as climate is not quantifiable.

    Greenland loses and gains ice surface area all the time. So?? You will notice that it generally loses ice surface area during Summer and gains ice surface area during Winter. Right now, it is Summer in Greenland. Big whoop.
     
    Tejas and Sunsettommy like this.
  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Made up numbers... meh...
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Good grief. There's no debating someone who just dismisses facts out of hand.

    You don't think climate can be measured? And again, you're ignoring facts. The story I posted is based on observations, not on baseless generalizations and denials like what you're posting.
     
    Bowerbird, skepticalmike and Cosmo like this.
  8. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Made up numbers are not "facts", dude... Facts are assumed predicate. I do not accept made up numbers from NASA, NOAA, or anyone else, so that means there is no 'assumed predicate' present in our discussion.

    I dismiss those numbers because they are pure guesswork, as it is not possible to measure the temperature of Greenland to any usable accuracy. There are not enough thermometers there, and the thermometers there are not uniformly spaced nor are they simultaneously read. This means that location and time bias is present in the data, which is not allowed.

    Correct. Climate cannot be measured... The specific elements of WEATHER can be measured, but not climate. Weather in and of itself is not quantifiable either ("more weather"??, "less weather"??), but weather IS made up of several quantifiable elements such as temperature, wind speed, ... ...

    You don't even know what a fact IS. I described it for you earlier.

    The basis of your "story" is bad mathematics (such as not eliminating time and location biases from data, not declaring a variance value, not declaring and calculating a margin of error, and on and on).
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
    Tejas likes this.
  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You dismiss those numbers because you don't like them.

    And climate is basically overall weather patterns over a large area, averaged over long periods of time. Climate change is a shift in that pattern. Temperatures increasing steadily over decades of observation and bringing about observable changes in weather patterns and events are evidence of climate change.
     
    Bowerbird, Melb_muser and Cosmo like this.
  10. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you would've read through my response to you a bit closer, you would've come to the conclusion that I dismiss those numbers because they are based upon numerous mathematical errors. I even specifically enumerated a few of those errors for you.

    My "liking" or "disliking" of those numbers is irrelevant. Math errors are math errors, regardless.

    This is an issue for me.

    Weather is a random event; it does NOT have "patterns" or "trends". If there WAS a such thing as a "weather pattern", then you'd be able to tell me precisely what the weather in Dodgeville, WI will be on Labor Day. If you can do that for me, then I will admit that I am wrong. Otherwise, I will completely and utterly reject your notion of some sort of "weather pattern" supposedly existing...

    Moving beyond this issue, a "large area" is not defined, and neither is a "long period of time". It's entirely subjective, and that's my point. 'Climate' is a subjective word... it is not quantifiable... it thus cannot "change".

    There is no "pattern" in existence TO "shift". See above.

    WHERE? How do you know this?

    Why is this "decades" time period, whatever that means, more significant than any other time period throughout all history?

    There is no such thing as a "weather pattern". See above.
    The elements of weather change all the time. Big whoop.

    Undefined buzzword.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Weather isn't random in any pure sense. It is driven by underlying forces that can be observed and quantified. This is why weather can be forecast. Climate is similar, but on a larger scale over a much longer period of time. If weather is the tree, climate is the forest.

    The rainfall at this summit in Greenland is a milestone, though, and comes at a time when many milestones are being passed and new records being set, with serious consequences for people and wildlife around the planet.
     
    Melb_muser and Bowerbird like this.
  12. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,990
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You do, so what's your point? Tx had the coldest winter for several places on record. Or did you forget that part? But hot damn, it rained once and the world is ending in a heat tragedy.... You literally have no credibility on this.
     
    Sunsettommy and gfm7175 like this.
  13. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is effectively random.

    If so, then why are weather forecasts constantly changing and often times WRONG? This should be easy peasy to do if weather is a "pattern"...

    Records are set all the time... Big whoop.

    What "serious consequences"? You're just preaching more Church of Global Warming nonsense...
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  14. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Bingo.

    That post was a perfect representation of the liberal mindset, one which seems to require that people pretend not to know certain things.
     
    drluggit likes this.
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You are right but if you looked at why, and yes it is complicated, the cold in Texas was still part if CLIMATE CHANGE.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Same old discredited denialist blog misrepresenting everything
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Same old dodging the data.
     
    Sunsettommy, gfm7175 and drluggit like this.
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Why should I bother with what is obviously fake news?
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No matter how long you keep your head under the covers, the monsters won't go away.
    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Medford et al., 2021
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  20. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,357
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow, this is good news!id be excited to see things to really thrive and live on Greenland.
     
  21. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,990
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Climate changes. It has, it does, it will. Which is entirely different than anthropogenic global warming which is what you folks retreat from when it's convenient. If the climate is changing, and texas is getting colder, that AGW thing certainly doesn't meet the quality standard, nor does it support the idea monolithic climate characterizations are useful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
    Jack Hays likes this.
  22. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Define "climate change".

    Describe precisely how a subjective and unquantifiable word such as 'climate' somehow "changes".

    You are speaking gibberish, I'm afraid.
     
  23. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Same old discredited denialist post misrepresenting everything
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  24. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Weather changes (specifically, the elements of weather --- such as temperature, wind speed, precipitation, etc...)

    Climate, on the other hand, is a subjective word... I can't think of any way to quantify a "change" in climate... Is there now more climate, less climate? At what point is a desert climate no longer a desert climate?? It's just not quantifiable.

    These religious fundamentalists are trying to make a big deal out of weather while pretending to know things that they don't actually know anything about. Weather happens, plain and simple.

    Yes, it got quite hot in the Portland/Seattle area in very late June. It's the MIDDLE OF SUMMER... It is completely expected to be quite hot during the middle of Summer. Wisconsin has even seen temperatures break 100 F a couple times during my lifetime (both times at the very beginning of July, if I recall correctly, which is the middle of Summer). It happens. Big whoop.

    These people always freak out about glacial ice melting/receding during the middle of Summer (which is completely natural) yet they completely ignore all of the glacial ice freezing/gaining during the middle of Winter.

    They also freak out about ozone layer depletion at the poles during their respective Winters (which is completely natural, due to lack of sunlight) yet they completely ignore when the ozone layer in those areas comes back again after Winter is over (due to sunlight returning).

    They freak out about "deforestation" yet they completely ignore "reforestation".

    I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made... These people have tunnel vision and (purposely, imo) don't see the big picture.
     
    drluggit, Jack Hays and Sunsettommy like this.
  25. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    1,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He doesn't know if it rained or not in previous centuries, but the Polar Bears don't care as they handle the rare rain fall without a problem.

    But we get one rainfall in a cold place they go into deep panic....., a place that is below freezing 99% of the year.... LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
    Jack Hays likes this.

Share This Page