raising taxes on alcohol and tobacco products

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by Tribearer_Eko, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    your son is smart then
     
  2. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should we stop there? Lets ban sugar, caffeine, all fats, alcohol, tobacco, oil, smoke, grass (people are allergic ya know!!!), dust, electricity (people get hurt), ect....

    I am sure you are sitting there going "thats silly" but it isnt. It is a slippery slope to protect someone from their self. Who gets to decide which is ok and which is banned? You? The great all powerful government that makes decisions based on who gives them the most money?

    People with intentions such as yours are so very dangerous as they don't even see the damage they are causing because they are "doing good".

    And also please link the studies that you keep talking about stating that society will be helped by banning these substances. Maybe you should read up on prohibition since you are ignorant on the subject. I wish you would at least look at history and facts before coming to false conclusions.

    http://history1900s.about.com/od/1920s/p/prohibition.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
     
  3. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    you are avoiding the question. what reasons do you give for keeping them. all you speak of is controlling everyone, your giving me a god-complex and that is not true. All you are thinking about is you "freedom"
     
  4. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    woop-di-doo the alcohol industry had reverse advancement. when the prohibition happened they did everything wrong: they made it out right illegal instead of slowly biting back production, they failed to concretely state what an intoxicating beverage was, etc
     
  5. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    No tax is going to stop me from drinking. High taxes have historically encouraged smuggling. Alcohol is extremely easy to produce. The only way you will stop people from drinking is if you somehow modify receptors so that the effects of alcohol are no longer experienced. There are pellets one may have inplanted in their arm so that the effects of heroin are no longer experienced. If you feel alcohol is too detrimental to society, its going to take more than a tax to stop people from consuming it. I can take an idustrial garbage bag, orange juice, sugar and yeast and make up some homebrew in about a week.
     
  6. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    Although still unknown to many, nicotine drug testing is gaining in currency. At the same rate, so is beating the nicotine test with cleansing products to flush a smokers system of nicotine so these higher costs need not be paid. Go to www.ipastmydrugtest.com to buy these system cleaners for nicotine and other drugs.
     
  7. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    Alcohol is recomended by many great doctors for things such as high levels of stress, to problems sleeping. It is also a relaxing pass time after a hard days work. It is probably the reason many a lower class worker continues on day after day. Illustrated most excellent in Upton Sinclairs book titled, 'the jungle'. The question is whether detriments outwiegh the benefits. Many people commit crimes and get into accidents while drinking, I have made some of the worst mistakes of my life while completely intoxicated. If one acquires an ability to consider life and its mysteries and its possibilities and its hardships, it can become very difficult for some to function while living with such contemptible and insecure ego stricken creatures without intoxicating beverages.
    Im not a big 'legalize marijuana' person but there are of course many benefits to this one.
    Im just not the personto tell you about them as I havent looked into it. I never liked weed myself, makes me feel uncomfortable.
    Cannot think of anything good to say about it, makes me paranoid.
    Alcohol will always be consumed unless, as I said, you make it so the effects are no longer experienced.
     
  8. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    thank you for actually answering my question felix, as i said before people usually go straight to the defensive and start whining
     
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not avoiding anything, I am giving you a "god complex" because you are acting like you know best, which of course, like most people that "know best", you have no clue. I am right because personal responsibility always win out. ALWAYS. You have no right to control what someone else does. I am not stating that alcohol or fat or sugar cannot be abused, but it is no reason to ban then. Just about everything out there can be, we need education not new laws and penalties destroying my, nor your, personal liberty.

    Here are some sites indicating the health benefits of drinking in moderation

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/3968.php
    http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

    Studies show that "Alcohol consumption is related to total mortality in a U-shaped manner, where moderate consumers have a reduced total mortality compared with total non-consumers and heavy consumers."

    Alcohol also decreases heart attacks, reduces blockages in the arteries to the heart and brain...

    Now, please stop avoiding my question:

    I am sure you will to continue to avoid it, I did some searches and the only groups I could find that even remotely state that society has been harmed are prohibition groups. Non-biased sources please. K-thx
     
  10. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    http://www.alcoholissues.co.uk/alcohol-crime.html


    "Tobacco-related
    diseases cost families and governments untold billions in
    health care costs, lost wages, and lost productivity.6"

    http://digitalcommons.wcl.american....h="would society better off without tobacco?"

    http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/258/15/2080.short

    http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/1/Suppl_1/S79.short

    "Alcohol not only has many, many negative effects on the human body and mind, but it is also creating increasing numbers of harmful social effects. Every year there are increasing numbers of families being destroyed, children being abused, people being sexually assaulted and traffic violations associated to alcoholism"
    http://www.aller-stead.com/martin/pages/alcoholism.htm
     
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ty for those links, I browsed though them and they all go back to abuse, addiction and dependance. People with addictive personalities make up about 7-10% of the US population which correlates directly to the number of alcohol abusers.

    http://www.addict-help.com/alcoholabuse.asp
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/NESARCNews.htm

    I never stated that alcohol is harmless, nor is any substance that we ingest into our bodies, but there is no reason to try to ban something because of 7% of the consuming population. Most people use it responsibly.

    We need education, taxes on the substances to combat addiction and offset enforcement and counseling costs, and huge penalties for individuals committing crimes while under the influence of ANY drug. The only things we should be worried about removing ore those substances that cause immediate addiction with even small amounts consumed.

    Should alcohol be controlled and regulated more tightly than it is? Sure
    Should it be banned completely? No

    Prohibition DOES NOT WORK. It breads crime, violence, full prisons, huge enforcement costs, loss of life, smuggling, ect... People are gonna do drugs, both legal and illegal. It is hypocritical to denounce alcohol or 50% of the illegal drugs while showing support for pharmaceutical products that have similar, and in some instances worse, effects that the illegal drugs have.

    I wish we could live in the utopia of no drugs of any sort, no pain, no illness; just love, peace and harmony. Unfortunately we do not live in that world. We live in a world that if you ban something, someone (usually with a gun), will get it to you for double the price that it was originally. All the while supporting their arms purchasing, murdering cartels.

    EDIT: I just went and re-read the op (your op). And we pretty much agree on the same points... Umm, Cheers :date:
     
  12. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    i understand what you are saying and i agree that a prohibition does not work, i said that i would raise the taxes to discourage such intakes and eventually keep raising taxes. however that would not happen for many years.
    haha see all that disagreement and we agree on many of the same points:-D
     
    cd8ed and (deleted member) like this.
  13. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying taxes are meant to be a form of coercion and not simply to generate necessary revenue. Perhaps we should tax Democrats to pay for the damage they do.
     
  14. greatgeezer

    greatgeezer Member

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    Spoken like a true "liberal". You seem to know whats best for everybody else, assuming as you do that people, other than yourself, are too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong. Your solution, therefore, is to ban it. Thank you, comrade.
     
  15. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    INTERESTING OUTLOOK:

    but is money worth the deaths and corruption of innocent people?

    So this is a problem when a personal choice is made.
    BUT ... the following example where no one has a choice is less of an issue?

    and what about the drugs made to help people?
    oh ... but what about side effects?

    You people cry about one hair on the dog and don't worry about how BIG BROTHER is killing people off ... after all arthritis is worth the risk of getting rare cancer :omg:

    A snide remark could be something like this:
    it could be said that you need a shower right now because people are homeless.
    and people should quit smoking because someone else got cancer?​

    Who am I to decide when YOU need a shower and who are you to decide who should quit tobacco when big brothers sanctioned poison is doing us more harm?
    Don't get me wrong - I quit smoking years ago - but I am fortunate enough to do that without pills and patches and whatever else.​
    When will people understand that TOBACCO is a ploy to distract the clueless who have yet to notice just how bad things like DIABETES is destroying families and lives a lot more and a lot faster.

    STAY BUSY CRYING ABOUT TOBACCO AND AND GET WARM AND FUZZY BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU DID SOMETHING HUGE :puke:

    and for the record:

     
  16. Enlisted Politician

    Enlisted Politician New Member

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    This is somewhat flawed and heavily opinionated. Smoking and drinking is a choice, a persons or individuals choice. It also happens to be legal for a person to enjoy this decision without worrying about any legal ramifications. Health insurance is very aware of those who choose to relish in or the other or both. It is how they make money, lots of money. However, raising the taxes is not the answer. People are allowed to make decisions and enjoy their life how they see fit when it falls under legality and being legal. It is no more fair to raise taxes on those who choose to smoke and drink, than it is to increase taxes on those who buy homes and cars. We need to be looking at a better way of budgeting instead of using all of our money and finding ways to make Americans pay for it.

    Another side not to consider is how this will hurt the economy. People who enjoy something find way to still enjoy this something. How they do this is by removing what they deem unnecessary. Cut the cable bill, get rid of cell phones, drive less, shop elsewhere, etc. When this happens, taxes invite stagnation which as you know kills the economy. It is time to stop passing the Gov's problems back to the people, the people don't deserve to be taxed. The gov just needs to be held accountable for misspending and abuse.
     
  17. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    I say there should be more people smoking and drinking. We need more patients for hospitals and doctors in the economic downturn. Tabacco is a great product it keeps people comming back for more, and thousand of workers in NC and the south depend on RJ Renoylds for money and a job.

    If the USA could exprot more of these tobacco products the USA will be better off. Other countries with their cheep and proficent healthcare will have more customers for the medical industry. And It will make the uSA look better on paper.

    Evolution demands it. The medically inferior should not continue to make babies.
     
  18. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    so you're saying that it is okay to sell these products that harm the community as long as we get money for it?
     
  19. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    Let me ask you this ...

    Is THIS okay with you and the government?
    Is that worth fixing plaque psoriasis or Moderate to Severe Rheumatoid Arthritis?

    ... oh! What am I saying? It is okay with the government - and you?
     
  20. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    the Prophet Has Spoken
     
  21. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    thanks a lot Felix :/ [ :) ]

    i understand your veiws in an economic view but i cannot agree morally
     
  22. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No thanks. I quite enjoy a cigar every now and again and my beer on the weekends. Those items are already taxed. That is enough.

    Watching too much television can cause problems as well, should be tax tv sets more also?
     
  23. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    you dont have to pay a tax to watch tv in the US

    i know tho that the UK does and quite frankly that is retarded
     
  24. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure you do, you ever look at your cable bill?

    Edit: you also pat taxes to buy the television. Just as you would pay more taxes to buy the tobacco and alcohol in your proposal, not to use them.
     
  25. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    the only reason that getting rid of these products wouldn't work is because people are much to selfish. you only think about what "i want".
    do you have to smoke? no
    is it harmful? yes
    to who? everyone around you
    do you have to drink? no
    is it harmful? potentially

    but why do you do it? because it is what YOU want.

    stubborn, selfish, ignorant fools. that's all the human race is.
     

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