Rampant corruption blamed for fall of Afghan government

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by kazenatsu, Nov 10, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's a lot of entrenched corruption endemic in Third World countries. These people simply do not have the same values or morals as society in First World countries. People have grown up all their lives in poverty and see desperate poverty all around them, and just want to grab as much money for themselves as they can.

    Afghanistan's ex-finance minister blamed "ghost" soldiers for the US-backed government's collapse.
    "Ghost" soldiers were nonexistent troops or personnel manufactured by corrupt officials to pocket their salary.
    The Taliban easily took over major cities before marching into Kabul in August, often without much of a fight.
    Khalid Payenda, Afghanistan's former finance minister said that most of the 300,000 Afghan troops didn't exist and were in fact "ghost" soldiers made up by corrupt officials who exploited the system for money.

    "The way the accountability was done, you would ask the chief in that province how many people you have and based on that you could calculate salaries and ration expenses and they would always be inflated," Payenda told Ed Butler of the BBC's Business Daily.

    Payenda also said that when soldiers were killed or deserted their commanders would keep their bank cards and withdraw their salaries.

    There were also leaders of government-backed militias who were "double-dipping," Payenda said, or taking government wages while also accepting payments from the Taliban. Combined with the fact that actual troops were not getting paid on time, this contributed heavily to the rapid collapse of the Afghan government, he said.

    "The whole feeling was, we cannot change this. This is how the parliament works, this is how the governors work. Everybody would say the stream is murky from the very top, meaning the very top is involved in this," Payenda said, though he added that he didn't believe former Afghan President Ashraf Ghani was "financially corrupt."
    The Afghan military was made up of 'ghost' soldiers who didn't actually exist, and that's why it collapsed so rapidly: ex-finance minister

    The Taliban has a lower level of corruption because they are fervently religious. Even many of the enemies of the Taliban recognize this, and that is part of the reason many people in Afghan society were indifferent to the Taliban taking over.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
  2. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    If nothing else that ****-show was a real 20 year money maker....and for one hell of a lot more people than greedy Afghans! ;)
     
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  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    The Iraqi Army was comprised of "real" Soldiers and they got their asses kicked by ISIS in a matter of weeks. The Afghan Army could have been at full strength and this same scenario would have played out regardless. The media can try to give whatever explanations they wish but the fact of the matter is simple. Anybody who has ever worked with the Afghan's knew they were doomed the second we left that place whether they were at 5% of 100% full strength. Most of them weren't Soldiers, they were a weak army of undisciplined young people akin to a 5th grade day 1 boy scout group arriving at summer camp.

    If you want to see what an actual real fighting force to be reckoned with looks like in that area of the world take a look at the Kurds or the Gurkha's, or sad to say it, the Taliban or ISIS.
     
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    And now they're going to be working for the Taliban. I don't think this is going to be going very well for the Taliban either.
     
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are probably right.
    I suspect corruption was only a part of the real reason.
    The news media is looking for easy excuses to explain why the Afghan government forces collapsed so fast, excuses that will not reflect badly on the Biden Administration.
     
  6. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It's mainly a ploy to save face for America overall. The Afghan's would have collapsed just as fast even if a reincarnated Ronald Reagan were President. We're the most powerful fighting force ever assembled in the history of human existence, there isn't a conflict that we are supposed to "lose" by any means whether directly or indirectly. And if "we" train "you" then you should be able to defeat anything, especially a "primitive" force like the Taliban especially with the money and equipment we give you to do so.

    The problem is the Afghan Army is simply untrainable, same as the Iraqi Army. They by and large don't have the discipline for it and in the face of real danger without big brother standing behind them they turn and run away like cowards. It's a cultural thing for a lot of folks in that part of the world unfortunately. Read any book on hardcore US military training such as a Navy SEAL BUD/S training memoirs or Army Special Forces training. Whenever there are Middle Eastern "allies" attending the course the US candidates in there despise them for their lack of commitment and poor performance dragging down the rest of the class. Very rarely do you ever hear of them performing to the standard of the American or other Western allied troops, they just don't have the discipline and drive to do so.

    Not all of course, as I said there are some absolute badasses over there who I am personally glad were on our side so we didn't have the unfortunate pleasure of having to face on the battlefield. The Kurds and Gurkha's are the first to come to mind. But most of the rest of them, to put it as accurately as possible....suck. It's impossible to expect anybody to train some of these people to standard even if we try for 20 years and spend trillions of dollars. The Afghan Army is one of them.
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Could you have written a more racist offensive opening paragraph? How many years did America have to change things? Surely you could have put some anti corruption watchdogs in place?
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Can you listen to yourself? Imagine you were someone from one of those countries reading this.
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I offered an explanation for why "these people do not have the same values or morals as society in First World countries".
    They have "grown up all their lives in poverty and see desperate poverty all around them, and just want to grab as much money for themselves as they can."

    If you saw my statement in this light, you would see that it was saying their values are a result of life circumstance and life experience, shaped by the conditions of the society and economic conditions within which they are in and have experienced.

    (I wrote more thoughts on this here: The Paradox of Poverty)
     
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yep! That the offensive bit alright
    Aaaaaaaaand it is still very offensive!
    Now here is a thought. How about working out ways to rid societies of corruption and if you think Western Societies are not rife with corruption then you have not been following the climate change debates. You haven’t been looking at the obscene kickbacks people like Jim Inhofe got or the massive amounts of Moolah flowing through Congress
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
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  13. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, when it comes to warfare where your effectiveness or lack thereof has direct consequences to the lives of my own Soldiers I don't particularly care about hurting feelings.

    American troops have died due directly to the shortcomings of the Afghan Army, I've seen it with my own eyes unfortunately more than once. I have personal friends who are purple heart recipients and permanently disabled as a DIRECT result of the Afghan Army's incompetence. One of them fell asleep on guard duty allowing the outpost to be attacked by the Taliban resulting in multiple American Soldiers being wounded. On another occasion they failed to secure the roadside village they were tasked with allowing the Taliban to place a massive IED resulting in the deaths of multiple American Soldiers. Two of which I attempted to pull out of the wreckage as they screamed in agony and died on the spot. I have dozens of examples as does anyone else who ever went to war alongside them over there or had the unfortunate task of trying to train them into something resembling competency.

    This is the military, we don't play participation trophies around here as peoples actual LIVES are on the line if you fail to do your job properly. I hear myself loud and clear and I'll repeat it just in case there was any confusion. To the Afghan Army as a whole, not necessary every individual seeing how I did meet some who were decent enough Soldiers, but to the Afghan Army as a whole, some of MY MEN are DEAD or GROTESQUELY WOUNDED because YOU SUCK. And I'm glad we have finally decided to no longer put American lives at risk in order to fight for you when you refuse to/are incapable of fighting for yourself and your own country.

    Clear enough?
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That puts context to your feelings at least
     
  15. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    On a positive note the ANZAC's are awesome. I spent a lot of time with them over there. Hilarious as well, they built an outside lounge area on the base and there were quite a few nights where we got into pissing matches about them being too loud watching sports. Them and the Brits. All in good fun, they definitely made the time more valuable and made for great memories. I'm thankful that the Aussies are our allies.
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    One of my favorite memories of when I was deployed to a multinational air base was one night when I was working as a DJ in the rec tent.

    I started talking to this old crusty British Sergeant Major and a Sergeant that was his driver. And the Sergeant complained I was only playing "American Pop", and nothing made by British bands. So I returned to my DJ booth, and the next song I cued up was "God Save the Queen", by the Sex Pistols. I went back grinning, and the Sergeant looked like he wanted to kill me. But the Sergeant Major got the joke and was laughing his ass off. And as we were of roughly the same age, he remembered when the Sex Pistols were still big news in the UK.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its not a secret that different cultures have different values and morals. Its not racist either... And every single culture believes theirs is better than outsiders'. Thats also not racist. 'Culturist' maybe...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  18. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    What % of Afghans do you wager have the requisite internet access, leisure time, English proficiency, and interest to read this?
     

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