Rand Paul flees to Canada for healthcare.

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by dagosa, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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  2. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and? It was a private hospital that he paid for. It wasn't part of the free socialized care Canada sometimes provides. Its very inline with Rands position of opening up private markets even over boundaries of states and countries, like allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines.
     
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  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You’re under a false illusion .
    Hospitals can be either private or public or non profit like here. Universal healthcare is about who pays not just who provides. Universal healthcare replaces insurance companies, not the hospitals. You’re analogy is fraud with error....you don’t seem to know what universal HC is about. Your confusing providers with payers.
    Rand Paul’s opening of markets refers to insurance companies...not hospitals. He’s a hypocrite. Because, universal healthcare does not reduce quality of care, but does reduce cost regardless of the hospital that provides it. You’re also under the illusion that HC is free. Everyone’s taxes pays for it. Nothing is free.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  4. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying Rand went north to get cheaper healthcare, and never once paid a dime of the taxes that went towards providing him cheaper care? Geez, hopefully it doesn't get around that it can be done that way, maybe a caravan will start going north to those hospitals seeking free care. Wonder what that would do to the already strained "free" care system up there if everyone from Chicago or Detroit just crossed the border for their doctor and never once pay a dime in taxes?
     
  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, they should wall in Canada to protect itself from the hordes of hypocritical private health insurance protectors who suddenly realize that socialism is fine.....
     
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  6. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    You should campaign on that. Really.
     
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  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The article speaks for itself. Rand Paul is fooling you. Everyone is liberal when irs personal.
     
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Bernie beat us to it.
     
  9. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-1-16_21-9-39.jpeg
     

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  10. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You realize that this varies by country? The single-payer plan put forward by California a couple of years ago would have outlawed all private medicine. You don't seem to know much about UHC, except for your own very narrow perception of it.

    It usually does, and it will in the US.

    It doesn't do that, either. Any more than Universal Food Provision would cut costs or maintain quality of the food supply.

    The only people under such an illusion are the socialists who dream of forcing strangers to pay for their care while shoving their morals down those strangers' throats.
     
  11. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Single payer is inevitable
     
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  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I know that California isn’t a country. I know universal health care is primarily about the payer, not the provider. It’s laughable you don’t get that. You’ll have to show a reference saying California the state outlawed private healthcare. That sounds pretty made up bogus BS.
    They have some of the best private hospitals in the country....
    Here, educate yourself. Not many don’t accept Medicare which is govt insurance. Medicare is not a provider. That’s what UHC is primarily about, public health insurance or non profit health insurance.
    https://www.quora.com/How-are-hospitals-in-the-USA-funded-private-or-government

    You're not going to find many democratic countries with universal healthcare that don’t have private hospitals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Rand Paul’s words...Paul believes UHC is slavery. We know he’s a fraud...always has been. So he now supported slavery.
    You have to realize what [demanding a right to healthcare] implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery,” Paul said in a committee hearing. “It means you’re going to enslave not only me, but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, the assistants who work in my office, the nurses.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  14. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Healthcare in Canada is Free ?
    Why don’t you tell that to a Canadian. They’ve been paying taxes for HC for years and they could have had it for free.....? Hmmm

    That’s bogus. Paul wanted to open insurance coverage across state lines, not hospitals and private hospitals have nothing to do with Paul’s out dated ideas. Insurance companies have always been free to provide coverage in any state they wanted to. They just have to conform to the coverage laws that differ from one state to another. It’s the ICs choice to cover patients in one state over another...you guys are so gullible. You’ll believe anything from Faux.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  15. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Duh, I know this, that's why I am against this practice being implemented in the US.

    Insurance companies aren't "free" to offer coverage anywhere they want, they have to pay for the ability to work in states.
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    They have to abide by state regulations. Congress can pass all the federal laws it wants and that won’t change..there are no restrictions NOW about buying health insurance accross state lines other then abiding by stare regs. If you have BCBS you are buying accross state lines....few if any large private insurance companies are intra state. It’s another lie from repugs that you guys keep falling for.

    Read this.does it sound like they don’t cover accross state lines ? I doubt it. Their separate federations are designed to accommodate everyone, everywhere !

    “Blue Cross Blue Shield Association is a federation of 36 separate United States health insurance organizations and companies, providing health insurance in the United States to more than 106 million people. Blue Cross was founded in 1929 and became the Blue Cross Association in 1960, while Blue Shield emerged in 1939 and the Blue Shield Association was created in 1948. The two organizations merged in 1982.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  17. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a government. It holds a monopoly on justice within its jurisdiction and only subject to a larger government that claims jurisdiction. Like much of the American experiment, the state of California attempts, and often succeeds, at enacting laws that will be studied around the rest of the USA and which will come to fruition at the Federal level. I'm sure that you've never heard of the American experiment, given you derisive attitude and petulant whining.

    Every UHC system?

    I'm sure that you work hard to make yourself feel superior so that you can feel like you win arguments by that feeling, rather than facts, logic, reason, or anything approaching objectivity. I find it pathetic, but it's your right to be that way.

    Right, I was mistaken on the hyperbolic side (I can admit mistakes, something I doubt that a know-it-all like you can do). It would have outlawed any private insurance that competes with single-payer, meaning no one could buy their own plans or supplement the California plan. It would have effectively made all healthcare in California government care, with those providing anything other than government care into cash-only providers. Private care would become only available to the wealthy.

    "This bill would prohibit health care service plans and health insurers from offering health benefits or covering any service for which coverage is offered to individuals under the program, except as provided. The bill would authorize health care providers, as defined, to collectively negotiate rates of payment for health care services, rates of payment for prescription and nonprescription drugs, and payment methodologies using a 3rd-party representative, as provided."


    They have some of the best private hospitals in the country....
    Here, educate yourself. Not many don’t accept Medicare which is govt insurance. Medicare is not a provider. That’s what UHC is primarily about, public health insurance or non profit health insurance.
    https://www.quora.com/How-are-hospitals-in-the-USA-funded-private-or-government

    Wait, it should be every democratic countries, not just "most" or "almost all." You're contradicting yourself.[/quote]
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  18. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Probably. That doesn't make it more, or a cost savings, or better than a free market for healthcare. That government provides something doesn't make it right to do so. Or, maybe it does to you. Slavery was a government institution, so you would have been for it.
     
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Then we get back to two basic facts. First, all hospitals are highly regulated by the Govt., often by state govts, for safety and efficiency. That’s not just in California, but all govts. One in five hospitals are private in the United States. They fill a need just like non profits and govt. run hospitals like Walter Reed do where congressmen and women get free and excellent healthcare.

    The govt has an OBLIGATION to provide postal service where private carriers like UPS don’t and it has an obligation to provide health care where the private domain does not...mainly in the military and metropolitan and outlying areas. It’s in the preamble to the constitution....read it.

    It’s under “welfare” . Every Govt. Agency tilled “welfare” includes healthcare as part of its regulatory process , both state and local. We already highly regulate healthcare PROVIDERS AND PAYERS both state and federal.

    Universal healthcare is really a small step for mankind.
     
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The GOP has been walking back the key parts of Obamacare which include mandates to insure people with preexisting conditons by not insuring them or charging them much more and eliminate caps on insurance. These two items make private insurance very expensive for private companies to provide.

    That’s the way it used to be before Obamacare...no preexisting conditons mandate and caps.
    Is that the way you want ALL insurance including that for the military and Congress, old white guys, and the general public to be ? Cause old people all have PEC called old age as does the military getting wounded. Cause, if it’s slavery for ordinary people it’s slavery for everyone.
     
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    You’re quibbling about me using the word “most” as a disagreement when you claimed that private hospitals would not exist in democratic countries with UHC ? First Canada is one. Secondly, some do not speak in hyperbole but unlike you we may do a little research before we open our mouths. I could find NONE that don’t have private hospitals. But, reasonable people don’t often speak in absolutes.

    To be clear why private hospitals fill a need. They may be more expensive especially if providing elective surgery and techniques not approved for coverage (stem cell and gene therapy as examples.) by UHC, so Govt, payers may not provide full coverage. The public then has to pick up a higher percent of the cost...that is a very important instance where private hospitals fill an important need, even in the UHC system.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  22. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Slavery was free market capitalism
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  23. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    actually a health-card system was put into place partially to prevent Americans and others from coming across the border pretending to be Canadians in order to get free treatment...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019

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