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Ranked Vote: How To Reform Redistricting And End Political Gerrymandering?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Meta777, Jun 8, 2018.

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  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I see.....

    I could put you down then for something like
    D,E,F,"Limit District Lines to County AND City Borders",G​

    ???
    Well, we're not necessarily trying to come up with a perfect solution here.
    If we happen to do that, then great. But the focus here really is just
    on coming up with ideas that are better than what we currently have.

    No need to toss away an improvement just because it doesn't improve everything...right?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 20, 2018
    #176
  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Um....isn't that still a form of majority rule???
    I mean,...the representatives are supposed to be representative of local majorities...right?
    Or if not local majorities, who are they supposed to represent?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 20, 2018
    #177
  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    In my opinion, almost anything is an improvement over our current system!

    The only way to vote against something here is to rank a bunch of other items above it/rank a bunch and leave the one you're against off.
    The more items you rank above something, the less likely that something will be to win,
    though of course it does depend on what exactly everyone else votes for.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 20, 2018
    #178
  4. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I commented on your post. 100 districts times 100 parishes per district times one representative per parish equals 10,000 representatives. That's something I call "math".
     
    xwsmithx, Jun 21, 2018
    #179
  5. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Using the electoral college as a prime example, no, a representative republic is not a form of majority rule. Otherwise, Felonia von Pantsuit would be president. The Senate is another example, since each state gets two members regardless of population or geographic size, so Rhode Island has two senators and California has two senators. Clearly not a case of majority rule. In the case of the Senate, the members don't even pretend to represent a majority of the country, they represent their state, and to a lesser extent, their party. (I say party to a lesser extent because even military-hating Democrats defend local military bases and pork barrel-hating Republicans defend local boondoggles.)
     
    xwsmithx, Jun 21, 2018
    #180
  6. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Based on your 'superdome' comment, I know you didn't read his essay.
     
    Longshot, Jun 21, 2018
    #181
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Last Chance to Submit Votes before the "Polls Close"!

    To vote, just list out the option letters in your order of preference,...

    See example ballot below for reference on formatting:
    B, C, D, F, H, M, 9, 8, 4, 3

    B. Automation-Induced Job-Loss
    C. Unemployment and Underemployment in General
    D. Partisan Dysfunction in Congress
    F. Too Many Restrictions on Abortion
    H. Too Much Gun Violence
    M. Global Warming
    9. Homelessness
    8. Overpopulation
    4. Campaign Finance Laws
    3. Economic and Social Inequality

    How To Reform Redistricting And End Political Gerrymandering?:
    A. Use Automated Algorithm to Draw Maps Based on Key Principles of Fairness
    B. Algorithm: Square-Rectangle Method
    C. Algorithm: Shortest Split Line Method
    D. Algorithm: Ring Method
    E. Algorithm: Ring Method (Quadrant)
    F. Algorithm: Ring Method (Multi Segmented)
    G. Limit District Lines to County Borders
    H. Require Districts to Meet a Complexity Ratio Standard
    I. Require Districts to Meet a Proportionality Ratio Standard
    J. Use Bipartisan Councils
    K. Use Independent Commissions
    L. Party-list Proportional Representation
    M. Single Transferable Vote
    N. Mixed-member Proportional Representation
    O. Use Panel-Decided Algorithm + Map Approval by Independent Commission
    P. Two District States (Rural/not Rural) + District Level Proportional Vote
    Q. Leave Things as They Are (Status Quo Option)
    R. Don't Feel Qualified/Knowledgeable Enough To Vote In This Poll
    S. No Strong Feelings One Way Or The Other

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 21, 2018
    #182
  8. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    P
     
    Ndividual, Jun 22, 2018
    #183
  9. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I can put that down for you as a 'write in' vote.

    :blankstare:

    Let's be clear here, you're suggestion would include the abolition of the Federal Government, would it not?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 22, 2018
    #184
  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I was applying Hume's idea to my home country of Pennsylvania. I said nothing about abolishing the union.
     
    Longshot, Jun 22, 2018
    #185
  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    The electoral college???
    We're still talking about house congressional representatives here, right?
    The EC really doesn't have anything at all to do with house reps.

    And those house representatives are supposed to be representative of local majorities...right?
    Or if not local majorities, who are they supposed to represent?
    And where does one draw the line between majority rule and mob rule?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 22, 2018
    #186
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, by design, there are some elements of our country's political structure which are not strictly democratic from the people's perspective, though they do have democratic aspects; e.g. within the body of the senate, issues are still decided based on a majority rule basis of senators (at least up until the filibuster comes into the picture), and both senators and the electors, while not apportioned proportionally to the majority of people in the country, are still chosen individually via majority rule based elections. So there are certainly democratic majority rule components there, but again, yes, by design, not all U.S. bodies operate completely on the basis of majority rule. There re clearly some that do not. But the House of Representatives is not supposed to be one of them!

    The whole point of the House is for it to act as a congressional body which is representative of the people's voice, via majority rule of the people, in contrast to the senate which is geared more towards representing the states as equal entities, i.e. majority rule of the states. If it is the case that the house does not operate on the basis of majority rule, then it is only because flaws in our system have allowed for debauched politicians to bastardize and corrupt the process away from what it should be.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 22, 2018
    #187
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Results in! And the winner is!....

    [​IMG]​


    M. Single Transferable Vote!​

    Lol, no surprise there,
    Not too many votes this time around, only 6, a surprising few given the larger than usual number of posts in this thread. Suppose you can say this is an issue that folk really like to talk about, but few of which who have an opinion on what to do about.

    BTW, congratulations to @redeemer216; your vote perfectly matched up with the RP results! How does it feel to be a true moderate? Lols. Not that this was a particularly polarizing topic though.

    Results (Ranked Pairs - Plurality - Instant Runoff):
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    A. Use Automated Algorithm to Draw Maps Based on Key Principles of Fairness
    B. Algorithm: Square-Rectangle Method
    C. Algorithm: Shortest Split Line Method
    D. Algorithm: Ring Method
    E. Algorithm: Ring Method (Quadrant)
    F. Algorithm: Ring Method (Multi Segmented)
    G. Limit District Lines to County Borders
    H. Require Districts to Meet a Complexity Ratio Standard
    I. Require Districts to Meet a Proportionality Ratio Standard
    J. Use Bipartisan Councils
    K. Use Independent Commissions
    L. Party-list Proportional Representation
    M. Single Transferable Vote
    N. Mixed-member Proportional Representation
    O. Use Panel-Decided Algorithm + Map Approval by Independent Commission
    P. Two District States (Rural/not Rural) + District Level Proportional Vote
    Q. Leave Things as They Are (Status Quo Option)
    R. Don't Feel Qualified/Knowledgeable Enough To Vote In This Poll
    S. No Strong Feelings One Way Or The Other

    "Write-in":

    Perfect Commonwealth
    Limit District Lines to County AND City Borders

    Ranked Vote: Discussion Thread
    If you want to be added to the list (or taken off), go to this thread and make a post and or vote in the poll:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/ranked-vote-contact-list.534668/

    @Derideo_Te @Pollycy @fifthofnovember @redeemer216 @BahamaBob @modernpaladin @yiostheoy @Spooky @Jonsa @Crawdadr @Longshot @Distraff @Moi621 @Seth Bullock @Thought Criminal @jmblt2000 @61falcon @mamooth @Chronocide Fiend @Merwen @Bob0627 @fmw @clg311 @Mac-7 @APACHERAT @kazenatsu @Socialism Works @Moonglow @FreshAir @rtts48 @perdidochas @Bridget @Bowerbird @scarlet witch @Andrew Jackson @Sallyally @Kode @crank @Bluesguy @AlifQadr @tealwings @Capt Nice @Moriah @Ndividual @wyly @Woogs @DennisTate @Ritter @Junkieturtle @cerberus @Homer J Thompson @JohnnyMo @Smartmouthwoman @ARDY @reallybigjohnson @Falena @PatrickT @StillBlue @JakeStarkey @Nerd of Liberty @drluggit @PARTIZAN1 @Aleksander Ulyanov @Canell @The Rhetoric of Life @Lucifer @vman12 @btthegreat @Mr_Truth @JakeJ @DoctorWho
    @Loving91390

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 23, 2018
    #188
    redeemer216 likes this.
  14. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    It's difficult to say where the line between majority rule and mob rule is, but having representatives standing between the electorate and the laws is one stage at least between the mob and the minority. The House of Representatives is not strictly representative simply because the number of people each representative represents is different among the states. Further, just because the representatives represent a majority of each district does not guarantee that the majority of the country becomes represented in the House. Immigration is a clear example of this. Some 85% of the country wants immigration reduced and illegal immigration stopped, but somewhere around 85% of the Congress wants immigration to continue at its current level and illegal immigration to remain unopposed, or did before the 2016 election. So no, the House of Representatives is not democratic or even strictly representative of majority wishes.

    It's a good question who representatives represent. If you look at voter turnout of midterm elections, and all representatives are up for election during the midterms, less than 40% of the eligible voters even vote, so for close races, you're looking at just 20% or less of the total eligible voters vote for the eventual winner. So who does the representative represent? The country? The state? The voting district? The 20% of the voting district that actually voted for him/her? The tiny number of major donors who gave to his/her campaign? Him/herself? The party that may or may not have backed him/her in the election with money and ads? I don't think there's a clear answer to that.
     
    xwsmithx, Jun 25, 2018
    #189
    Ndividual likes this.
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