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Ranked Vote: What is the Most Important Immigration Category Needing to be Dealt With?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Meta777, Jul 14, 2018.

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  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Winner: Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
    (click for detailed results)

    Ranked Vote: Discussion Thread

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey folks, this is going to be a big one,...
    So big in fact, that this vote has been split into seven different parts.

    Original Discussion Thread:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...nact-comprehensive-immigration-reform.535480/

    For this particular part of the vote, I just want to know which categories of immigration folks think are the most important ones to try and deal with when putting together comprehensive immigration reform. I.e. the parts that most need improving.

    To fully participate in crafting the final plan though, you should try to cast a ballot in each of the following threads, particularly the five in the middle...


    What is the Most Important Immigration Category Needing to be Dealt With?
    A. Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Snuck In
    B. Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas
    C. Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    D. Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    E. Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Snuck In
    F. Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years)
    G0. Requirements for Immigrants Being Granted Residency Status
    G1. Procedures for Immigrants who Immigrate Illegally After Reform Implementation
    G2. Requirements for Handling Parents w/ Children
    H. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work
    I. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education
    J. Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent
    K. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System
    L. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service
    M. Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service
    N. Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General
    O. Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens
    P. Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees
    Q0. New Visa Programs
    Q1. How to Handle New Legal Immigrants
    R. Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language
    S. Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses
    T. Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses
    U. Immigrants with Violent Offenses
    V. The 14th Amendment/Limiting Birthright Citizenship
    W. Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
    X. Visa Application and Petitioning Process
    Y. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    Z. Funding for Immigration Reforms
    &. Border Security
    #0. Sanctuary Cities
    #1. People Aiding Undocumented Immigrants
    #2. Voter ID
    #3. Legal System for Immigrants
    #4. Setting Up a Deal w/ Mexico
    #5. Aid to Improve Foreign Countries where Migrants Originate
    #6. Communication of Policy Changes in Foreign Countries​

    To participate in this vote, simply cast your ballot by making a post in this thread with a list of the letters sorted in your order of preference.
    K, F, G1, R, S, #6, #2, C, B

    No write-ins allowed for this part. Sorry.

    BTW, for those who are new to this,
    this thread is part of a larger series geared towards coming up with and voting on solutions to society's persistent and pressing issues (this being one of the larger ones). Feel free to check the others out if interested:
    Ranked Vote: Discussion Thread (includes schedule)
    What To Do To Reduce Partisan Dysfunction In Politics
    Solutions Oriented Approach to Restoring Meaningful Civil Discourse

    If you want to be added to the list (or taken off), go to this thread and make a post and or vote in the poll:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/ranked-vote-contact-list.534668/

    @Derideo_Te @Pollycy @fifthofnovember @redeemer216 @BahamaBob @modernpaladin @yiostheoy @Spooky @Jonsa @Crawdadr @Longshot @Distraff @Moi621 @Seth Bullock @Thought Criminal @jmblt2000 @61falcon @mamooth @Chronocide Fiend @Merwen @Bob0627 @fmw @clg311 @Mac-7 @APACHERAT @kazenatsu @Socialism Works @Moonglow @FreshAir @rtts48 @perdidochas @Bridget @Bowerbird @scarlet witch @Andrew Jackson @Sallyally @Kode @crank @Bluesguy @AlifQadr @tealwings @Capt Nice @Moriah @Ndividual @wyly @Woogs @DennisTate @Ritter @Junkieturtle @cerberus @Homer J Thompson @JohnnyMo @Smartmouthwoman @ARDY @reallybigjohnson @Falena @PatrickT @StillBlue @JakeStarkey @Nerd of Liberty @drluggit @PARTIZAN1 @Aleksander Ulyanov @Canell @The Rhetoric of Life @Lucifer @vman12 @btthegreat @Mr_Truth @JakeJ @DoctorWho
    @Loving91390

    Feel free to take your time with this one folks, I know its quite a lot.
    And also, if you have questions please feel free to ask. Thanks!

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #1
  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Deport
    A, E, B, D,

    SCOTUS ruling needed
    V

    Prosecute and incarcerate
    O, #1, W, #2
     
    APACHERAT, Jul 14, 2018
    #2
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  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol! That was fast.
    You've thought about this, havn't you.
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #3
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For 48 years I have.

    I lived in ground zero.
     
    APACHERAT, Jul 14, 2018
    #4
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  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Middle Eastern Terrorists....everyone else would be secondary at best.
     
    tecoyah, Jul 15, 2018
    #5
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Great job getting this organized. I went through the list and ranked them in my order of priority as requested.

    F, P, C, D, E, G2, W, H, #3, A, B, G1, L, X, Y, Z, S, T, U

    F.     Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years)
    P. Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees
    C. Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    D. Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    E. Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In
    G2. Requirements for Handling Parents w/ Children
    W. Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
    H. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work
    #3. Legal System for Immigrants
    A. Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In
    B. Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas
    G1. Procedures for Immigrants who Immigrate Illegally After Reform Implementation
    L. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service
    X. Visa Application and Petitioning Process
    Y. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    Z. Funding for Immigration Reforms
    &. Border Security
    S. Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses
    T. Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses
    U. Immigrants with Violent Offenses
     
    Derideo_Te, Jul 15, 2018
    #6
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  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #7
  8. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's my vote. :-D I rank P high because for those folks, or some of them at least, our policies can mean the difference between life and death, so there is a bit of added urgency there and we should decide on whether our policy is going to be to take them in, or not, and make it clear to them and the world so they can weigh their options before making moves, but as it is our laws say one thing while our actions seem to say another. F I ranked high just because.... seriously, how many years has it been? How long can a person's status just remain up in the air like that, let-alone a whole group of people? Likewise to the asylum group we need to either decide to kick them out or give them some sort of well-defined non-temporary legal status. W is up there for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons being that it is sort of right at the root of the problem which draws many of the non-asylum-seeking illegal immigrants. I think G2 is self-explanatory.

    G2,P,F,W,C,D,A,E,&,X,Y,Z,#3,G1,#5,#4,#6,G0,B,I,H,J,K,L,Q0,M,N,O,Q1,#0,#2,R,S,T,U

    G2.     Requirements for Handling Parents w/ Children
    P.     Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees
    F.     Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years)
    W.     Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
    C.     Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    D.     Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    A.     Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In
    E. Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In
    &. Border Security
    X. Visa Application and Petitioning Process
    Y. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    Z. Funding for Immigration Reforms
    #3. Legal System for Immigrants
    G1. Procedures for Immigrants who Immigrate Illegally After Reform Implementation
    #5. Aid to Improve Foreign Countries where Migrants Originate
    #4. Setting Up a Deal w/ Mexico
    #6. Communication of Policy Changes in Foreign Countries
    G0. Requirements for Immigrants Being Granted Residency Status
    B. Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas
    I. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education
    H. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work
    J. Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent
    K. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System
    L. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service
    Q0. New Visa Programs
    M.     Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service
    N. Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General
    O. Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens
    Q1. How to Handle New Legal Immigrants
    #0. Sanctuary Cities
    #2. Voter ID
    R. Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language
    S. Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses
    T. Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses
    U. Immigrants with Violent Offenses

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #8
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  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    imho, you missed the most important category - the more than 11m undocumented residents who have lived here for many years and have committed no crime.

    This is the cheap, unrepresented black market labor pool.

    Dreamers are a no brainer. Current handling of them is just a humanitarian crime perpetrated by a president who has no conscience at all. This item is so obvious that it shouldn't even make the list.
     
    WillReadmore, Jul 15, 2018
    #9
  10. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd say they'd be included under the Dreamer category or one of the other undocumented immigrant categories.
    A, B, C, D, E, or F. Though really this thread just covers some broad groupings.
    The real down and dirty details are addressed more in this other thread:
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Undocumented Immigrants & Visa Overstays)

    Though that said, even that one is more about exactly how the different groups should be dealt with
    and there's not much distinction made in the options regarding how long they've been here apart from the Dreamer category of course.
    But while write-ins aren't allowed for this thread, you can add write-ins in the one I linked to.

    Not sure I quite follow your reasoning there, but I agree Dreamer category should be a top item,
    I had it in the top 3 of my list.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #10
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm only partially interested until it comes to figuring out an actual plan.

    People responding to your various line items here are ALL going to be only marginally happy with ANY aspect of a final solution.

    Coming up with a solution involves way more than prioritizing our various levels of hate for immigrants of various circumstance. The very idea of prioritizing our hate for children is just plain disgusting.

    ANY solution requires all the parts to work together - including the numerous compromises required for any plan that is going to go anywhere. Those compromises aren't just based on how much we hate various immigrants. It also includes factors of what the possibilities are for actually addressing the numerous issues, for just one example.

    That's why the bi-partisan immigration reform bill was so important.

    It was comprehensive, it was consistent across the parts, it included compromises that addressed the several different constituencies, it was sensitive to our need for immigrants, it took into account who we are as a nation, it included implementation direction, it addressed enforcement, etc.
     
    WillReadmore, Jul 15, 2018
    #11
  12. MississippiMud

    MississippiMud Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate all the effort that went into this very complex issue. I am a believer that with complex issues simple solutions are the best way to start,

    The law is the law and must be enforced. #1 strict unbiased enforcement of current immigration laws.
    #2 Option "W" Harsh penalties to those who employee illegal immigrants. In my experience the vast majority of those who come here illegally are good hardworking folk looking for a better life for their families. Basically they are doing what most of us would do under similar circumstances. If you remove the reason they come, they will not come. By and large i do believe it is that simple. Those that do still come can then be more easily dealt with.
     
    MississippiMud, Jul 15, 2018
    #12
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's sort of what we're doing here.
    The results of the middle five links:

    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Undocumented Immigrants & Visa Overstays)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigrants Wishing to Immigrate Legally)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigrants Who've Already Achieved Legal Status)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigration Systems, Security, & Enforcement)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Foreign Outreach/Other)

    ...will be used to put together a comprehensive plan. Each individual link/vote will essentially lead to one component of the plan. And of course, because people's opinion of a plan component might change depending on what its combined with, a final vote will be held in which that plan in its entirety gets pitted against other plans that have been suggested, and perhaps a few derivatives of itself following further discussion.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #13
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's kind of how compromise is supposed to work... ...isn't it?

    Especially when the players are far apart position-wise, it tends to be the case that hardly anyone gets all of what they want.
    But everyone does at least get a little bit of what they want, and almost always everyone can agree that the compromise is better than the status quo.

    Are you aware of any workable alternatives that would lead to everyone being more than 'marginally happy'?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #14
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Not every option listed is about hate you know...
    In fact, I'd even argue that even the options which seem like they're about hate aren't about hate.

    If you want to rank higher the least hateful seeming options and leave out the more hateful ones,
    then I think these votes are set up for just that sort of thing. I actually tried to be fairly generous
    to immigrants in the two votes that I submitted myself. What comes out in the final results though
    will depend upon how others decide to vote.

    That bill will be included in the final (comprehensive) portion of the vote. (the seventh thread which is not yet created).
    Of course, not many of us will likely be digging in too deeply into all the details of the bill, but the results of these
    votes should reveal at a high level what it is we here at political forum would like to see in a comprehensive bill.
    Who knows, it could be pretty close to that senate bill. Or maybe the senate bill itself will win out in the end.
    But if the results from these exercises differ from the senate bill I think its important to know and understand why.

    Could be for a good reason.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #15
  16. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    &
    Y
    W
    #0
     
    Seth Bullock, Jul 15, 2018
    #16
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  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It also could be that nobody is spending any time understanding the bill that passed the Senate and would have passed the House had Boehner not blocked it. That was a bill passed by thinking adults who represent us. They built that bill knowing what is possible and what is not possible, what is best for America, what different constituencies need, what our history is, what America's promise has meant to those in unbelievably horrible circumstance, etc.

    I don't agree that identifying who or what we hate most is an adequate approach, let alone an approach of the quality of the bill we already have.

    No time is being spent trying to figure out what is best for America. There is just this assumption that if people want to dump on Hispanics, then that must be best for America!!! I do not accept that kind of logic.

    No time is being spent on what can (and can't) actually be done, etc. This board is notorious for promoting directions that have zero possibility of being carried out. For example, we are certainly NOT going to deport 11 million people for several reasons. But, few here even care to ask why!!

    No time is being spent on what the current situation actually is - noting such factors as what immigrants contribute, how they are LESS prone to crime, how the number of undocumented aliens hasn't grown for 10 years, etc. So, the hate spew of Trump gets accepted on THIS board, affecting your direction toward what you suggest will become a valid compromise.

    So, whatever... But, until I see some degree of serious thought I just don't see where this is going.
     
    WillReadmore, Jul 16, 2018
    #17
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks! :-D
    And yeah, I figured that with an issue as big and complicated as this one, organization was essential,
    so I tired my best. BTW, nice formatting on your vote, very easy to read, and much appreciated.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 16, 2018
    #18
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  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Like I mentioned before, this isn't about hate.
    If you're worried that the results of this vote will be too anti-immigrant though, you yourself can influence the outcome you know.
    Why not simply cast a vote yourself and then try and convince others to vote in the same way?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 16, 2018
    #19
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    So if I'm reading this right, are you saying that Y and W are the top two categories?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 16, 2018
    #20
  21. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome. It is actually very easy to do.

    Step 1 Cut and Paste the entire list from the quote into the text area below.

    Step 2 Cut each line from the list and past it into a New List in the Order that you want them to be in.

    Step 3 Stop when you have moved all the lines you want to vote on into the Order that you want and Delete the remaining non voting items list.

    Step 4 Copy and Paste the New Reordered sublist that you just made.

    Step 5 Using the top Reordered list just Edit Out the Text by replacing it with a comma ",".

    I like to make things simple for myself. ;)
     
    Derideo_Te, Jul 17, 2018
    #21
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's exactly how I do it too! Or at least its very similar.

    I start just the same, by grabbing the list and pasting it into the text area and then moving items in order to build the sorted list.
    It sounds like for your Step 2 though you're pulling the items out of the initial list in your order of preference.
    Whereas I just go down the initial list in order from top to bottom when pulling them out,
    and I choose at that point where I want to insert the pulled item into the sorted list.
    For the items I know I wont want in the sorted list I either just delete them before sorting or at the very end.
    (though of course I usually end up sorting almost everything)

    So perhaps some slight differences but basically the same idea. Great minds think alike I guess. :-D

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 17, 2018
    #22
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  23. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jul 17, 2018
    #23
  24. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The primary concern should be getting the classifications right. Legal immigrants are hardly a significant issue at the moment. The various types of illegal aliens on the other hand are. Although as a country of laws, where everyone is considered equal under the law, all illegal aliens should be treated the same and deported en mass, at least until the numbers are more reasonable. Allowing such base trickery as attempting to classify illegal aliens as something they are not only goes to show the media's attempt to lie to the public once more, further miring them into that swamp of fake news...
     
    Dispondent, Jul 18, 2018
    #24
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    So I take it then that you would view the red items from the list as most important.
    How would you prioritize them amongst themselves though? Want to cast a ranked vote?
    Also, is this to mean that you also think Dreamers should be deported en mass?
    What is the Most Important Immigration Category Needing to be Dealt With?
    A. Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Snuck In
    B. Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas
    C. Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    D. Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
    E. Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Snuck In
    F. Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years)
    G0. Requirements for Immigrants Being Granted Residency Status
    G1. Procedures for Immigrants who Immigrate Illegally After Reform Implementation
    G2. Requirements for Handling Parents w/ Children
    H. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work
    I. Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education
    J. Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent
    K. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System
    L. Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service
    M. Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service
    N. Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General
    O. Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens
    P. Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees
    Q0. New Visa Programs
    Q1. How to Handle New Legal Immigrants
    R. Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language
    S. Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses
    T. Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses
    U. Immigrants with Violent Offenses
    V. The 14th Amendment/Limiting Birthright Citizenship
    W. Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
    X. Visa Application and Petitioning Process
    Y. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    Z. Funding for Immigration Reforms
    &. Border Security
    #0. Sanctuary Cities
    #1. People Aiding Undocumented Immigrants
    #2. Voter ID
    #3. Legal System for Immigrants
    #4. Setting Up a Deal w/ Mexico
    #5. Aid to Improve Foreign Countries where Migrants Originate
    #6. Communication of Policy Changes in Foreign Countries

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 18, 2018
    #25
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