Rational argument in support of prohibiting the private ownership of semi-automatic rifles

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Xenamnes, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Through countless threads of discussion pertaining to why firearms should be prohibited from private ownership, either in a general blanket approach, or limited to specific categories of select firearms, there has yet to be a single argument presented from the position of logic and reason. Instead nothing is presented but emotional drivel, debunked and discredited studies, generalized hysteria, outright ignorance, and vague terminology that has come to mean quite literally everything, with having no defined meaning that justifies the existence of the term.

    Comparatively speaking, the general conduct of those presenting arguments for firearm prohibitions, is not far removed from that of a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum over the fact that they do not get to have their way.

    It is for the above reason, that a logical, articulated hypothetical argument will be presented, to demonstrate how one should conduct themselves when trying to present an argument to be taken seriously, rather than complaining just for the sake of complaining.

    For the sake of simplicity, the argument will be limited exclusively to the AR-15 platform series of rifles and carbines.

    Observe.

    Private ownership of the AR-15 platform series of rifles should be prohibited under all instances, due to the unique nature of threats that are presented by the misuse of such firearms.

    At one point in time the AR-15 rifle commanded a market price of at least one thousand dollars when it was originally marketed by the Colt manufacturing company. This is no longer the case. With the AR-15 series of rifle being produced by nearly all firearm manufacturers, and competition now being viable, the market price in the united states has decreased significantly, bringing some examples to seven hundred dollars or less, making them even more affordable than some handguns on the market, such as those produced by the Sig-Sauer, Smith and Wesson, and Kahr Arms manufacturers. Handguns may be preferable due to their concealability, but the AR-15 excels in affordability, stability, accuracy, and the superior ballistic coefficient of the intermediate caliber of ammunition it is generally chambered for.

    The AR-15 series of rifles, much like all rifles, is capable of accuracy far in excess of what any handgun or shotgun is realistically capable of achieving. Six hundred meters is regarded as the maximum effective range for the standard cartridge, although the correct matching of projectile weight, barrel twist rate, and sights can extend this accuracy out to eight hundred meters and beyond, meaning it can be readily adapted for, and capable of, sniper-like deployment against private citizens and law enforcement alike, and putting the operator well outside of the range of detection and engagement. This renders magazine capacity restrictions as useless, as with a simple change in engagement tactics, can result in even greater damage being done.

    The ergonomics of the AR-15 series of rifles, along with the fact that it functions largely like a semi-automatic handgun, puts it in a class that is largely unique to itself, making it a different matter than other commonly available rifles. Whereas all rifles possess superior ballistics and range compared to other firearms, the AR-15 series is a lightweight, compact, ergonomic platform that allows for ready deployment in an effective offensive capability that is not shared by other firearms. A trained operator who is familiar with the functionality of the platform can easily engage multiple targets, and swap out magazines when necessary without having to break their line of sight in doing such. This allows them, theoretically at least, to continue firing until such time that they have completely expended their supply of ammunition.

    The standard issue kevlar vests utilized by law enforcement officers are not designed to provide protection against rifles, but rather handguns and shotguns that discharge lower velocity rounds of ammunition, rendering them useless against the AR-15 series of rifle, or any rifle in general. Vests capable of protecting against engagement by a rifle are significantly heavier, more cumbersome, and more uncomfortable to wear for longer periods of time. Even if adequate protection was available to ever law enforcement officer in the united states, their effectiveness would still be limited on the basis of individual comfort. Beyond such, no kevlar vest will protect against a shot to the head, or to the femoral artery in the leg, which can be done by utilizing the long range capabilities of the platform.

    Beyond such issues is the increased risk of injury to bystanders when the AR-15 series rifle is utilized in an offensive capacity against an unsuspecting crowd of individuals in a fairly confined area. While soft point, expanding ammunition will more readily fragment upon striking a target, the same cannot be said for the commonly available full metal jacket variant that comes in bulk packs. Such ammunition is more likely to penetrate through initial targets, and strike what is behind and beyond them. In such an engagement there is almost no such thing as cover, which shields against stray rounds of ammunition, there is only concealment, which hides the potential victims from being seen. The same cannot be as easily said when someone is engaging a group of targets with either a handgun or a shotgun, which are more likely to be stopped or otherwise deflected upon contact with a sufficiently hard surface.
     
  2. REALITY CHUCK

    REALITY CHUCK Well-Known Member

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    Wow! You make a good case for owning one.

    As for banning them, maybe not so much. Consider that many drugs are banned, but in spite of every police force in this country watching for them, thousands of tons are smuggled into this country every year. There are hundreds of firearms manufacturers in the world, they will continue making this type, or similar, no matter what we ban. People here will still want them, smugglers will bring them in, and sell them to their primary customer - criminals.

    Some states have already tried to ban or register them, and law-abiding citizens revolted and did not obey those laws.

    You will never eliminate them, they are a known technology that is easy to manufacture in small shops.

    Rifles are rarely used in crimes. At Sandy Hook, they were the thing available. In any long-range shooting scenario, bolt-actions can be just as good a choice. Once you have fired and available targets have scattered, semi-auto loses its edge.

    It may be a nice, rose-colored thought, but human nature is human nature, and the technology is just laying around for anyone to make a buck off of.
     
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  3. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the US, how many people per year are shot with an AR 15 style rifle? From that platform and answer we will then move on to banning skateboards because they are far more dangerous.
    Good news though, In march 2017, over 1,300,000 guns were purchased through the NICS system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    On average, per year, for the last 35 years, 2-3 'assault weapons' are used to kill 7.4 people.

    I'd love to see the decision tree that inputs these facts and spits out "ban assault weapons".
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Very nice.
    Every single point is easily debunked, countered or rendered irrelevant, but they were all well-written.
     
  6. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Well put.

    I know from My own experience with the
    M16A1 - M-16A3, the XM-177E, later the M-4,
    Colt has always been more expensive, when I I was building AR Rifles, I purchased Surplus Military Milspec parts from various sources, the AR Type Rifle has great qualities and versatility, Unequaled by any other platform.

    Your talking points are not based on information usable by people like myself that made an income on this Rifle when public interest in this Rifle was just begining.
     
  7. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I the the 80's AR 15's and 16's started appearing in Northern Ireland. However, it wasn't nessissarily as popular with the alphabet soup of para groups as the Brit SMLE; it hit far harder, at longer range and could be fired nearly as fast as the AR 15 despite being a bolt action. Google 'the Mad Minute'. I had a carbine version, about 7lb loaded, and could be loaded with either a magazine or stripper clip. I used mine here for hunting in the late 80's and 90's...an excellent, low cost, surplus field gun and the .303 an excellent cartridge that could take almost any game in the world and is still in use worldwide; they are still encountered in Afghanistan and elsewhere and used effectively against modern weapons. I sporterized mine and mounted a scope; it was a fast handling gun that could reach out and touch. Those that think banning semi autos will solve problems don't realize what many good bolt actions can do, particularly in the hands of a skilled operator.
    Students in my long rang shooting class who get to work with a range of weapons from a Kentucky flint long rifle and old Sharps falling block/Remington falling block rifles through to modern platforms are often amazed at how well, and quickly they can accurately put rounds down range when trained well, rounds far more effective than the .223/5.56 at any distance. Many are stunned when they see how quickly the SMLE can be fired, reloaded and fired through a full mag again. Can be had under $100 at many gun shows, certainly less that $200 and they are still abundant not only all over the EU, but any where the Brits left their foot print.
    There are faster bolt actions these days... modern straight pull bolt actions that can fire powerful rifle cartridges as quick as many can do with an AR.
    These days there are other options. Lever gun.... there are speed loaders for those.
    Fixed mag AR... there are speed loaders for those.
    Can't have semi auto... there are pump action ARs.
    With almost any restrictions imposed there are products that negate them.
     
  8. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    You write well but come from the wrong perspective.:
    1) Your first point is that the AR15 platform has come down in price to around $700 dollars. While this is true, that is a basic model without a scope. A Mossberg 100ATR can be bought for around $300, is a bolt action rifle that comes with a scope, a longer barrel for greater accuracy, and better calibers such as .308 and .30-06. The low priced AR is in .223 only, no scope.
    2) While you can stretch the accuracy of an AR15 .223 to 600M, it is not designed for that and effective range is more like 300M. Now you want to pay for a scope ($200), you can stretch that range, but then you also limit your close in accuracy because the scope becomes a liability. Yes you can get offset mounts, quick detachable mounts and even swing away mounts, but these also add costs.
    3) The effectiveness of the semi-auto ability is also limited when you shoot at long ranges. As someone who shoots a lot at 1000Y, I can tell you that it takes several seconds between shots, you are not going to empty a 30 round clip as fast as you can at ranges beyond a 100y and expect any accuracy. So a bolt action rifle, with a longer barrel and in a higher caliber is just as efficient as well as more accurate.
    4) The efficiency of a round diminishes with distance, so the efficiency of a ballistic vest increases.
    5) As for FMJ bullets going through one target and killing one or more targets beyond is too Hollywood, quit believing everything in the movies. Maybe with armor piercing rounds, maybe...Or with a more powerful round which adds a lot of cost in both the AR and the ammunition.

    So now that all of your points have been debunked, what else do you have.
     
  9. FrankCapua

    FrankCapua Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have an AR -15, but I also have a Ruger Mini-14 or Ranch Rifle with a scope. They function the same, but one of them looks scary and one doesn't.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And 3 of them were in one home invasion in Broken Arrow!

    Somone call the book of records folks.
     

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