Real Affordable Healthcare Can Be Accomplished

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Esperance, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't know what this has to do with my post, but I like tangents so here goes: before my mom had her knee replacement, someone wrote a big "No" on the knee that was not being replaced. I told the doctor that it didn't instill much confidence that he needed someone to do that. He said it was just a new rule someone with nothing better to do came up with.
     
  2. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately, those kind of things happen occasionally. And when they do, the hospital Risk Management specialists are usually put in a position to find a, "corrective action," solution.

    Most often, it just involves letting the person go. The most common serious errors happen in the areas of dosage and lab test integrity. Imaging has improved significantly, but there are still occasional problems there as well. And of course, when you might have multiple surgical suites operational all at the same time, things can get intense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  3. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    That may be true, nut as history now dictates, the Democrats clearly lack the foresight and intelligence to have attempted it either! All they did was create a giant Chinese fire drill, crater not one but to systems and now need the help of the party in power to fix it before it fails completely!

    "If a true affordable healthcare solution is obtained...it will almost certainly be obtained by the Democrats."
    So your solution is to give the bumbling stooges a do over, while screaming "that the Republicans are NEVER going to come close to a true affordable healthcare solution" Wow, now that's some interesting thinking there! I think logic would have it, if they couldn't get it right the first time, and fought repeal and replace to keep now, pretty much tell us they're just as stupid today as they were yesterday ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  4. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ummm...this may surprise you, but I have a better opinion of the Democratic politicians than you.

    I think they can get the job done...and I think they can do it with Republicans coming on board.
     
  5. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh, so the other post was just political rhetoric?

    Judging from these two posts I'm not to sure you have a solid opinion at all?
     
  6. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure what you see as so objectionable.

    I do not think the Republicans are capable of it.

    I do think the Democrats are...and I also think they can get some Republicans to join them.

    What is your problem...other than you want me to be wrong.
     
  7. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    No real objection other than I don't see Democrats as any more capable now then they were the first go around! As for your input I question it's validity because you contradict yourself

    In my case I think your honest at heart but put to much weight in tearing down Republicans in multiple quotes and then try and suggest the Dems "That can do it on their own" even with the Republicans coming on board.

    As a Republican I think after reading your comments I'd be more inclined to reject your invite on the grounds of condescension, almost feel the same as when some one needed a double and we're that fat ugly one that shows up :)
     
  8. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    But it's not, your not factoring in PR! By the time 2018 slides in the RNC propagandist will have firmly placed the fault at the feet of the Democrat for a NO SHOW! Keep in mind we're not here to win the hearts and mind of Democrats we simply need to address our base and their loyalty. The ones that are actually benefiting from the ACA are the Democrat welfare crowd, other than that "Paying Customers"! The payers will always see the ACA as Obarrycares, and when it get so expensive they start to squeal it will be at the designers not the party that FAILED to get one passed! Same goes for the welfare crowd, they now expect it for nothing, and when it starts to slip they will look to the people that provided it over the years and begin to realize the Dems were the ones that killed the other option, watch and learn ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  9. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Some Republicans are definitely feeling the heat from their constituents. Have you not been seeing the news of the town hall meetings these Republicans are having to face?

    As has been stated countless times before, the Republicans have had well over 8 years to come up with something better than O'care, and this monstrosity was the best they could come up with?

    This is a real opportunity for those Republicans who are not ideologues to actually do some real legislation and fix the part's of O'care that need fixing. Unlike the tripe news reporting fed to right wingers, O'care is a work in progress, always has been. US healthcare is a hydra, far too many moving pieces to dissect and reassemble all at once.
     
  10. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    You really need to change the channel more often.
     
  11. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Your using yesterdays rhetoric, think about it, what were the senators being beat up on? They were arguing against folks in favor of Obarrycares :) What did that one drama queen claim "I will simply DIEEEEE, if I lose my ACA" well little lady, fear not, you have your Obarrycare!
     
  12. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    We will not have to wait long to see :) It has already started this weekend, be receptive now, we don't really care what you believe, we care about those Republican folks watching their channel :banana:
     
  13. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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  14. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    No, it was also the realization of how those pesky "essential health benefits" come into play. People started realizing that kid they had 2 years ago that was an accident was covered because their plan automatically included maternity coverage.
     
  15. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    So your saying that maternity "Included" was a ACA first, I pray you're not that misinformed! I have had BC/BC most of my life and Maternity was always covered, so I'm at a loss at what you're attempt to prove here :confusion:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  16. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Individual or group plan thru your employer?

    If it's a group plan, then your employer made the decision for you.

    http://obamacarefacts.com/essential-health-benefits/
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  17. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you implicitly acknowledge that the current system does not provide affordable healthcare then you pretty much cut the throat of your own argument from the get. It is the reason the PPACA needs to be replaced.
     
  18. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have been studying this idea over the past several months and here is what I have come up with. First, here are some facts.

    Currently, we all pay 2.9% of our salaries to pay for Medicare, and that is split between the employer and employee - 1.45% each. For ease of discussion, let's just call that 3%.

    Seniors account for 34% of all health care spending in the U.S. People below the age of 65 account for 64%. This is not because seniors are healthier - they aren't. But they only represent 11% of the population. The healthier younger 89% account for 66% of medical spending by virtue of their sheer size.

    Medical care has 3 legs - hospitalization, services, and pharmaceuticals. That 3% we pay only pays for hospitalization (Medicare Part A). Services (Part B) and Pharmaceuticals (Part D) are paid for by premiums paid by seniors and by government deficit spending. If you combine all three legs into one big health care package, that 3% of salary we all contribute accounts for only 38% of Medicare's cost. This means that that 3% of salary we pay for Medicare pays for a little over 1/3 of the cost of Medicare for seniors. Continuing ...

    If we wished to fully pay for Medicare (Parts A, B, and D) we would need to increase our payroll tax to 9% of salary. For that 9 cents on the dollar, all three legs of Medicare would be fully paid for for seniors who represent 34% of overall U.S. medical spending. Now if we wished to cover the rest of the under 65 population, who represent 66% of medical spending, we would have to increase that tax twice more by 9 cents resulting in a total tax of 27%. That could be split by employer and employee - 13.5% each. Examples:

    Household income 1 million, tax $135,000 (If the million dollar earner was self-employed, they'd pay $270,000)
    Household income 200K, tax $27,000 (or $54,000 if self-employed)
    Household income 100K, tax $13,500 (or $27,000 if self-employed)
    Household income 75K, tax $10,125 (or $20,250 if self-employed)
    Household income 50K, tax $6,750
    Household income 25K, tax $3,375

    There would be some efficiencies to having only one insurance company (the government), but the fact is that medical insurance companies make an average of 4% profit on their business. And all the employees who administered this government program would be federal employees, and federal employees make good salaries and benefits. How much would be saved by sheer efficiency is open to debate, but I concede that, since the profit motive was out, it might cost less.

    We also need to remember that Medicare carries with it deductibles and co-pays.

    Let's just say, hypothetically, that the Republicans crash and burn in the coming years, and the President and Congress go solidly Democratic. Do you think the Dems would be willing to do this? Would those politicians be willing to tax themselves this much - and their wealthy donors?

    There is no free lunch (or medical care). If we want something, we must be willing to pay for it.

    I can back up all my sources of info. Here are a couple of charts.

    [​IMG]

    The below chart is from JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Assn. Although from 2004, the statistics are still relevant.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Close enough. I came up with a 25.6% HI Payroll Tax (12.8% each for employer and employee).

    It would be advisable to have co-pays of $100 per hospitalization, $10 per office visit and $5 for pharmaceuticals just to reduce abuses.
     
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  20. GreenBayMatters

    GreenBayMatters Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obummercare was signed into law 7 years ago. It needs fixing? So when are the Democrats going to introduce legislation fixing it? They have plenty of time on their hands.
     
  21. GreenBayMatters

    GreenBayMatters Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll take the time to study your idea. In the meantime, I want to thank you for the effort you made.
     
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  22. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Not certain where you got that figure for profits by health insurance companies. I've heard a little less, but ok.

    The way Medicare works is that it still relies on private sector insurance, particularly to fill the 20% gap, but also with the option of Medicare Advantage plans. These are in essence HMO plans with little to no premiums, of which Medicare pays a fixed monthly cost and allows the insurer and provider to deliver care within those limits.

    The biggest portion you leave out would be to reform parts of Medicare, Particularly Part D, but in essence to give CMS the power of negotiating prices for Medicare recipients. This was left out of the 2005 legislation.
     
  23. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's interesting that you have done your own research, and our estimates are so close to each other.

    You're welcome. I tried to use statistics that are not political or skewed. Just trying to figure it out ...

    I was just curious last year as to how much those insurance companies are making so I started googling, and I found a site that listed profit margins for various industries that included health insurance. I don't have a link to it at my fingertips, but it's out there.

    You're right about those Medicare Advantage plans. My understanding is that Medicare contracts with them for a set bundle of money. If the client uses less, Medicare wins. If the client uses more, Medicare loses. But the bottom line is that what we pay for Medicare to exist is a known amount, and how much is paid from other sources (deficit spending, premiums) is a known amount. And, how much of the health care dollar is accounted for by the age groups we fall into is a known amount. So I made these estimates based on those known factors.
     
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  24. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are you suggesting that the Republicans can easily do it completely on their own without any help from the Democrats and are only holding back because they can get more for their side if they wait before acting?

    (And if you are wondering where you suggested that...I got that from the same place you got me suggesting "the Dems could do it on their own.")
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  25. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Suggesting that the current law needs to be improved...does not in any way suggest that ANYTHING has to be replaced. It simply indicates that I think (and most people think) the ACA has improvements needed...and we should be working on them...rather than letting the amateurs in the Republican Party do what they are trying.
     

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