Reality Of The True Believers

Discussion in 'Ethnic & Religious Conflicts' started by El Kabosh, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Lord Archaea

    Lord Archaea New Member

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    I have a question for you, Would ISIS support these particular attackers?

    Also, If you want a stable country to go to, Iran hasn't had a single terrorist attack in the list. Sure there are plenty of worries on the countries bordering them, but Iran is perfectly safe, never mind it is a Shiite nation.
     
  2. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Who cares if they kill each other? That's not the US government's concern. It's only a concern when they start killing Americans. And the biggest reason why a group like ISIS is killing Americans is because the US government invaded and occupied Iraq. Otherwise, ISIS as we know it today would not even exist. It's entirely reasonable to point that out in the context of such discussions.
     
  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Good point.

    The Islam haters always treat Muslims like they belong to a monolithic entity.

    But there are important distinctions between and even within Islamic sects.
     
  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    And what some call "terrorism" are often times legitimate acts of resistance to a tyrannical government.

    For example, the PKK is a Kurdish militant group in Turkey who is labeled a "terrorist" organization by the US government.

    But the PKK is just a response to decades of Turkish-nationalist brutality and oppression.

    Erdogan is a bigger terrorist than the PKK are, yet he is our nominal ally and they are not.

    What "terrorism" has really come to mean is "Things the US government does not like".

    And don't think it's limited to just Islamic extremists. Veterans, pro-lifers, militias, antiwar activists, animal rights activists, social justice movements, etc. have all been associated with "terrorism" by the US government in some way. For example, a survey of law enforcement agencies from around the country found that most law enforcement officers believed "sovereign citizens" were a bigger terrorist threat than ISIS or AQ.

    Simply put, "terrorism" is just a propaganda tool used by politicians to instill fear in the people. And some people are only too happy to oblige them.
     
  5. f_socialism

    f_socialism New Member

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    Iraq made it clear that a secular strongman is better than a vacuum that will likely be filled by zealots. I can't fathom why Obama and company decided that destabilizing Libya and Syria was the way to go.
     
  6. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Most in the West have no clue which is which.

    Why don't you start a thread to discuss who is and is not?
     
  7. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those are only the ones known and reported. It does not count the beatings and murdering of women and the tens of thousands of civilians otherwise murdered by ISIS and radical Islam. For example, it does not count the gay teenager just hung by the Iranian government.

    The list you present is only the most apparent tip of the iceberg. Hundreds of millions of Muslim women live in continuous terror as example.
     
  8. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Because more chaos means more fear and more fear means more power and wealth for the plutocracy.
     
  9. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good luck with that. It is likely "wait until hell freezes over" applies.
     
  10. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Why would I need to start a new thread? The OP mentioned Islam so that's what I'm discussing.
     
  11. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And there is NO ONE most Democrats truly HATE more than white Christian males. That's because they hate the United States.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because he wants the formation of a huge, united, and nuclear armed Empire of Islam to put the evil white imperialists in their place and because Islam is the most beautiful and best ideology in the world to President Obama.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    What? You think all White Christian males are republican?
     
  13. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WOW, I had no clue that American soldiers were killed in such large numbers by a movement based upon religion.

    Of course, if you say the Nazis were driven by Christianity, instead of the occult, and the ambition of Hitler, then you would have a point. But since that was not the case, you stretched it so far as to break it.

    But historically the RCC killed so many people in the name of god, up until we got the church out of gov't. Once we did that, Christianity stopped being so murderous...believe in my saviors blood, or I shall drown you in your own...

    But Christianity once it was separated from the State, began to reform. And so today, the killing is coming from Islam, who prefers theocracy, where the state and the religion are basically one in the same. Where religious law is the law of the land.

    So, until islam is separated from the state, or wanting for islam to be one with the state, this killing will continue on. Glad I could point that out for you folks.
     
  14. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Just a guess, but there's supposedly something called "chaos" which is a new political/military maneuver to keep enemy countries in line. I don't know that it even exists, but events in Crimea and the Mideast are suggestive to me.

    IMO such a policy goes beyond Machiavellian into Hellish, which is where IMO anyone following such a policy should go. There is no excuse for totally destabilizing countries and causing massive civilian suffering, delocation, and death.

    It is my belief that Hillary has been following such a policy that makes me so implacably opposed to her
    . If she's capable of that, think of what she would be willing to do to her own countrymen. And, if you look at the racism and other issues her party is dredging up, you can see that both she and her party's leaders are quite willing to rule in the US just as cruelly. Willingness to get our own police murdered is just for starters, IMO.
     
  15. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Jake was correct--you have no true desire to have those in the West able to differentiate the different sects in Islam.
     
  16. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion.
     
  17. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    You're right. It wouldn't exist AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. A different form would exist. Maybe even worse then this one. Maybe at a different time frame. AQ existed years before the US invaded Iraq. Islamists have been slaughtering eachother since the 600s after the Sunni-Shiite split. Look at that list. The vast majority of the victims are Muslims killed by fellow Muslims. As they have been doing for nearly 1400 years. Are you suggesting that if the US didn't exist, (a nation that didn't even exist until 1200 years AFTER Muslims started killing eachother) that there would be peace in the middle east?

    Say we didn't invade and take out saddam. What would have happened after he died later on from natural causes or whatever? Would his son have done as well a job as him at keeping them from killing eachother? Perhaps. Perhaps not. All that we do know for sure that your attempt to solely on and the US for a conflict that has exited for a thousand years is complete lunacy.

    You say the US caused all this by invading Iraq. Ok well then I say the Brits cause all this when they rewrite the map after WW2 in the most idiotic way humanly possible. See I can play that blame game to. Radical Islamists are responsible for Islamic terrorism. Period.
     
  18. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    So are you going to start your own thread or no? Answer this question, what is the topic of THIS thread?

    And radical Islamists deserve all the hate we can give.
     
  19. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's libbie MSM B.S.!!! The US has done NOTHING to support terrorists. At least no one but Obama who was sending arms to Syria but, he is so stoooooopid he didn't realize he was creating ISIS who now are the proud owners of American military arms. Iraq would have been a shining secular Democratic nation by now if Obama hadn't dropped the ball. Face it, Hillary and Obama are all but incompetent to handle the power of the U.S. Time for them to go. I hope Obama removes all the prayer rugs in the White House before he slinks out.

    Now today we hear that Obama sent 400 Million in unmarked bills via a midnight flight just BEFORE the hostages were released. We PAID a ransom despite what Obama is trying to lie about. The CASH was 'laundered' through Switzerland. It is totally unaccountable. It's like paying off the Mafia.
     
  20. Lord Archaea

    Lord Archaea New Member

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    To be honest, I don't exactly know how all the sects are different. so here's an image of the relationship of the different sects.

    [​IMG]

    When it comes to countries, most of the Islamic countries are Sunni. Saudi Arabia officially endorses Wahhabi part of Sunni Islam. Iran is a Shiite nation.
    The only nation that isn't Sunni or Shiite is Oman which is Ibadi.
    Iran, the figurehead of Shiite Islamism, has tamed itself compared to the days of Iran-Iraq war. you might've noticed that Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei allowed the relatively moderate Hassan Rouhani to be the (mostly ceremonial) President of Iran in order to keep the public quiet. because Shiite Islamism is associated with Iran, it is not as radical as its Sunni counterparts.
    Sunni Islam tends to be the form you see the most terrorism from.
     
  21. Lord Archaea

    Lord Archaea New Member

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    Sure, Iraq is a mess. but I think that is also in part due to the mostly Shiite government's incompetence. you do notice on the list a Shiite militia slaughtering civilians. It's because of things like these that Sunnis don't trust the Iraqi government. that is not to say they trust ISIS, I don't remember what the statistics are off the top of my head, but I think it was around 90% of people don't like them.
     
  22. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. So we should mainly try to keep Sunnis out of the US?
     
  23. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    The Brits certainly share some of the blame. It can be placed under the general header of imperialist folly.

    As for what would have happened in the absence of an invasion, we can only speculate. At the very least, we'd be about two trillion dollars richer and there'd be about 4,500 brave Americans still alive.

    Speculation aside, ISIS as we know it today is a direct result of the invasion and occupation of Iraq, just as the situations in Libya and Syria are a direct result of US government intervention in those countries. Those are facts and no amount of speculation is going to change them.
     
  24. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    It's very simple.

    Before the invasion and occupation of Iraq, there was no such thing as ISIS.

    After the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the organization we know today as ISIS emerged in the context of the occupation.

    Most of the top ISIS commanders are former Baathists who were removed from power by the Bush administration.

    The titular head of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Bagdhadi, spent time in a coalition-run prison in Iraq where he networked and organized with other prisoners.

    These are just facts.
     
  25. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    No, just Salafists/Wahhabists. They are the ones committing almost all of the terrorism against the west and against other Muslims. Most Kurds are Sunni Muslims, for example, but they are very friendly towards the west.
     

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