Religion is concrete, while agnosticism/atheism is abstract

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Channe, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I meant to say 'not' answered.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why would he or anyone need to show proof? If they believe it, that is proof. I've seen someone post such a thing.
     
  2. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    My posting was speaking of the conversation between two other posters (both of which are male)... Therefore, your mention of "he" is a bit ambiguous as I don't know which one you were speaking about.

    But I see your point. If anyone is expressing a 'belief' there is no need for proof, as that person expressing the belief has the proof that he/she needs. On the other side of the coin, If that person is attempting to convince others that what he/she is saying is true, then his/her presentation of evidence or argument must be capable of compelling the mind of the other readers that his/her assertions or evidence is true.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if one could answer, they would of, if they want to prove me wrong.... by all means they can do so if they can....

    .
     
  4. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You say that as though you believe they have no other options available. Hmmm.
     
  5. Prunepicker

    Prunepicker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I have. Maybe it would help you to do the same instead of parroting what someone
    has told you to say. At any rate I'll start answering these so-called contradictions.
    This answers itself. God created the universe from nothing. His being without
    means clearly states he had the ability to do whatever he please.

    No contradiction here.
    Speaking of Jesus who is God.
    No contradiction here.
    Elohim / Jehova is God. He is LORD God and Adonai and many other names.

    No contradiction here.
    Yes. Jesus is God. Read the book.
    This was answered.

    No contradiction here.
    Already answered. God is Jesus. Jesus is God. The Word is Jesus, i.e. God.
    Still no contradictions.
    Where is the contradiction supposed to be?
    Still no contradiction
    There is no contradiction. "In that day" means during that time.
    The people you believe are trying to make Light and Darkness to be Sun and moon.
    They are two completely different entities.

    No contradiction here.
    The Bible isn't being quoted. The people who told you to cut and paste this are
    in error. There is no contradiction in the Bible as I've made clear to this point and am
    going to do so as we go.
    Somebody is mistaking the pillars as being literal pillar and not the Word of God.

    No contradiction here.
    So far these were a piece of cake and that's because there are no contradictions
    in the Bible.

    To save time I'm going to provide you a link to check your work.

    https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/scripture-index/#gen

    - - - Updated - - -

    I did answer your question. You simply don't want to deal with it.

    LOL!
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I must of missed it then, what were Jesus;s exact last words right before he gave up the ghost......

    simple question, but sense the bible is conflicted on this one, I doubt we will see an answer anytime soon

    .
     
  7. Prunepicker

    Prunepicker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    83
    http://www.politicalforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1065391221

    I'll answer your question again. I hope you read it this time.

    There is no conflict. Both agree. They contain different information and
    neither conflict. One says It is Finished and the other leaves it out. This
    is a far cry from any form of contradiction.

    You're trying to hard to make something that doesn't exist to exist.
     
  8. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Life isn't concrete for the religious. They also have problems, losses, tragedies, and such on a mental, physical, and emotional level. If you could look into the lives of any one of those people who come to church, you will see a life riddled with such things. Some come out fairly well and others don't. Some even die praying.

    It's sounds like a guy with mid-life crisis. He tells himself he's young, but he knows he's not. But he tries to act like it hoping that his earnestness will make it a reality. I think the religious try to be stable and content, but they aren't. They seek it, like most other people and have varying degrees of success...like most other people.
     
  9. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Matter can be formless, however matter cannot be "nothing". It is indeed a contradiction, no amount of apologetics will reconcile this.

    Jesus is god? Doesn't appear to be so.

    Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18
    And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
    Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
    Mark 16:19
    So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
    John 8:40
    But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.
    John 14:28
    My Father is greater than I.
    John 20:17
    I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    Acts 17:31
    Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
    1 Corinthians 11:3
    The head of Christ is God.
    1 Corinthians 15:28
    And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
    Colossians 3:1
    Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
    1 Peter 3:21-22
    Jesus Christ: who is ... on the the right hand of God.
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/jesus_god.html

    You are correct, the Bible claims Jesus is god while at the same time claiming he is not god.

    So a day can occur at night....?

    Perhaps not a contradiction, however the earth existing before the sun? Sounds a bit stupid to me. And why claim that the moon is a source of light? It is not, it is merely reflecting the light that the sun provides. Also, what is this firmament and how can it be scientifically validated?

    Perhaps they are not accurately quoting the bible because they are merely using a different version of god's word? LOL How many sozens of version are there of the Bible?

    Also:

    1. The two contradictory creation accounts.

    The Book of Genesis begins with two contradictory creation accounts (1:1-2:3 and 2:4-3:24). In the first, God created humans (male and female) after he finished making all of the other animals. In the second, God made one man (“Adam”) and then created all of the animals in order to find a helpmeet for Adam. God brought all of the animals to Adam, but none of them appealed to him. So God made a woman from one of Adam’s ribs to serve his helpmeet.
    Here are two of the more obvious contradictions between the two creation accounts.

    In the first creation story, humans are created after the other animals.

    And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:25-27
    In the second story, humans were created before the other animals.

    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19
    In the first creation story, the first man and woman were created simultaneously.

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:25-27
    In the second account, the man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.

    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. Genesis 2:18-22
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html
     
  10. Prunepicker

    Prunepicker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Then where did matter come from?
    Yes he is.
    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word with with God and the Word
    was God. vs 14, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

    John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

    It doesn't get any more clear than this.
    Correct. Jesus is God. This verse doesn't say he isn't God.

    God as man is calling to God as father.
    None of these claim that Jesus isn't God. The skeptic site takes everything
    out of context and doesn't do any research to find the truth. But that's the way
    anti Christian sites are. At any rate, I debunked this site earlier in the thread.
    Not at all. The Bible clearly says that Jesus is God. See above.

    As you can see all of your so-called contradictions have been easily debunked.
    All one need do is read the Bible and not count on someone else doing it
    for them.
     
  11. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No one knows. The fact there is not a definite answer does not mean goooooodddddddddd did it and you are somehow validated.

    Who is god's father?

    Your post fails to address the scientific inaccuracy in a book supposedly written by a deity.

    lol

    Your apologetics are nonsensical. Would I say "Wolverine is greater than I [Wolverine]"? Your apologetics are nonsense. Note most of the claims of selfdeityship are found in John. Which was written some eight to one hundred years after the supposed event, and the gospel in which none of the supposed witnesses of the supposed event were alive at the time of writing makes most of the extraordinary and outlandish claims. There is a huge difference between Mark and John, and the time of their authorship has a great deal to do with this.

    Of course I do not expect you or any other Christian to honestly address the blatant contradictions in the four gospels (let alone the dozens of gospels that were arbitrarily excluded from the final canon, LOL), or any of the other books, but they are fun to point out.

    I see you failed to addressed the contradictory creation accounts in the first two chapters of the Bible.
     
  12. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48

    You speak very openly about alleged contradictions, however you have not shown any PROOF that there are any contradictions. Do you suppose it might be possible for you to provide such PROOF of alleged contradictions and not just a repeat of the allegations that you make?
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we already have, closing ones eyes when shown doesn't help....
     
  14. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48

    No! What you have shown is what you believe to be contradictions. You have shown no proof to the other readers or myself of any such contradictions.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    let's keep it really simple .... :)

    [video=youtube;RB3g6mXLEKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=44&v=RB3g6mXLEKk[/video]

    .
     
  16. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Is that really the best that you can do as your personal explanation and presentation of evidence that could lead to a proof? Did you create the video? No? Then it is not your ideas but those of someone else. Do you often allow yourself to be led by cartoon characters?
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    trying to help you see the light... baby steps
     
  18. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I quit taking baby steps about 65 1/2 years ago when I actually learned to walk upright. As for the lighting in my home... it is quite sufficient.
     
  19. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I already have, we have already gone down this road and I see any further exchange on the subject as a waste of time.
     
  20. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You considering something as a waste of time is only a matter of opinion. My opinion differs from yours. So that leaves us with yet another question. Why do you consider answering the question a waste of time? Why do you avoid the question by using a mere opinion as opposed to facts?
     
  21. Prunepicker

    Prunepicker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,079
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Wrong. I know. It's from God. There's no doubt about it.
    God said he did it and that's very reasonable. I trust him over any
    scientist.
    Not sure about god, but God doesn't have a father but Jesus, who is
    God does. It's God.
    Of which you've been unable to provide.
    No they aren't. They are sound and it's bugging you so much you have
    to try to change the subject.
    Also in Matthew, Mark, Luke, Romans, Acts, Corinthians, Colossians, and
    others.

    You're assuming they weren't alive. Hmm, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
    were alive. That makes your assumption invalid.

    By the way, the claims are correct unless you can provide evidence otherwise.
    Yet they all agree. Amaziang, don't you think?
    There are no contradictions. I've been debunking your attempts to provide them
    right and left.

    You've not provided one single viable contradiction.

    Yes I did. If not yours then someone else on this thread, which, by the way,
    don't contradict.

    I see you failed to accept the fact that all of the other so-called contradictions
    I answered put your false claims of contradictions to rest.

    C'mon give me your best shot. Put up something you are so confident it's
    a contradiction. I'll show you that it isn't, as I have the others.
     
  22. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages:
    31,455
    Likes Received:
    34,888
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Bible is true because the Bible says that God says that the Bible is true.

    Round and round we go ...
     
  23. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    But Science supports what the Bible says too:

    Gen 1:1 says a Big Bang beginning did happen.
    Gen 1:2 says the formless disk of rocks rotation the Sun was void of global shape, which was true.
    Gen 1:3-5 says the Dark Cosmic Age existed before there was any light in the Universe.
    Gen 1:6-8 describes the forming of an atmosphere above and waters below.
    Gen 1:9-10 describes "all the waters under heaven gathered together into one place," which was a Pangea-like truth.
    Gen 1:11-13 explains that the Plant Kingdom came before the Animal Kingdom, which was true.
    Gen 1:14-19 tells us that God assigned the Sun and Moon and Stars to keep time on Earth. ("made" in Hebrew means "assigned.")
    Gen 1:20-31 explains about the animals diversifying into herds of mamals, and finally, man, made to image "Reality," mentally, in the form of Truth inside his mind.


    Chapters 4, 5, and 10 explain the correspondences of the Genealogy with the species of Paleontology:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No, actually it is from man. A great many men, many of which were unaware of each other.

    Even with 462 scientific inaccuracies?
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html

    That is some faith (suspension of all logic and reason).

    Yet, Jesus describes his father being greater than him. He must have been drunk.

    I do believe some one hundred have been rpived, yet you refuse to be honest in you rebuttals.

    Wolverine is greater than I [Wolverine]", does this make sense? Yes or no.

    Nope.

    Too much to provide n one post (lol):
    http://infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.html


    Why not stop reducing god either too weak or too stupid to write a book? God is clearly either too weak or stupid to either get the first two chapters correct without contradictions or blatant inaccuracies.

    Different chapters, different contradictory portrayals of he beginning, perhaps you are incapable of understanding what simple words say?
     
  25. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    No! Just a suspension of secular logic... as for the reasoning ... it is founded in Theologic.

     

Share This Page