religion trumps science in education by LAW

Discussion in 'Science' started by Jonsa, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    drawn from scientific facts. That's how that stuff works, ya know.
     
    Diablo and Bowerbird like this.
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Beliefs? no. Facts, YES!!!!!!!!!
     
    Diablo and Bowerbird like this.
  3. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No beliefs...
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. An essay on evolution for biology, or continental drift for geography, or radiometric measurement for chemistry cannot be answered by "religious faith/belief", but by scientific law, theory and fact.

    Science deals with the intellectual and natural worlds. It strives to explain the workings of universe and define our place within it.

    Religion deals with both the spiritual and supernatural worlds. Its strives to provide meaning both for the universe and one's individual existence.
     
    Diablo and Bowerbird like this.
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As an agnostic atheist I am totally aware that I cannot definitively prove there is no god, but in the absence of definitive evidence of a creators existence I do not believe one exists.

    We can only speculate on whether there ANY life in the universe beyond this planet, intelligent or not. But given the scale of the universe, probability makes it highly possible there is.

    No the goal of secular education is to create educated productive people who can function and contribute in society. But even if its just to puke up answers, there's one helluva large % of the populace, where that remains a major life challenge.
     
    Diablo and Bowerbird like this.
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,682
    Likes Received:
    11,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This will just require some of the questions to be re-worded. Such as "According to the theory of evolution..." rather than stating things as simple facts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  7. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why would you need a link?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don’t have a god. As they are human constructs. Why do you think old books is evidence of the existence of a god? Do you believe zuess is real? I can show you thousand years old books that mention him.


    Fascinating. In no way relevant to anything at all, but fascinating.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,551
    Likes Received:
    74,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    So you should also be fine with the Quran being taught and the Book of Mormon and the Flying Spaghetti Monster
     
    Diablo likes this.
  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are as valid as evolution as the creator of life.
     
  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,551
    Likes Received:
    74,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Good so any answer on any test has to be marked correct since I am sure there is a religion SOMWHERE that believes in the most outrageous tripe, like the world was created by some supernatural being some seven thousand years ago

    On a rainy Tuesday afternoon

     
    Diablo likes this.
  12. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    Yeah, its called evolution.


    Sunny here.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,551
    Likes Received:
    74,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Case in point
     
  14. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No just Christian, since we are a Christian nation
    Why are you changing the goal post? You're the posting pictures of I assumed was your God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Huh?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,867
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, Christianity is popular in America.

    But, we do NOT have a national religion. Suggesting that religious thought has to coincide with Christianity is nonsense.

    Besides, the OP doesn't suggest that. It suggests people could answer with religious expression - which would include devil worship, paganism, new age crystals and pyramids or whatever.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  17. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    1,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Of course it suggests that, its ohio
     
  18. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,863
    Likes Received:
    8,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Within my advanced biology course in a section on evolution, about a year was spent discussing/debating/examining the Theory of Evolution, presenting facts as we know them from observations showing the evolutionary change of various animals up the biological scale showing the relatively steady evolutionary trend from simple life forms to complex life forms, and, ...........to be fair to the religious, about 10 minutes was spent stating the alternative theory that "god did it" (actually is true, not a joke).
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unless at a university (or college) level, I claim the above is crap. No high school biology class spends a year on evolution. I taught science for 8 years, and even the AP classes in the schools I was at didn't do the above.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,867
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's not "being fair" to discuss religion in a science class unless it is oriented to describing why science and religion are two very separate realms, and that science can not address any idea that includes something that is supernatural.

    I'm not suggesting that all religious ideas are wrong or even that the case in point is wrong - it's just that it doesn't have anything to do with science.

    Looking at it from the other side, discussing religious creation ideas in a science class implies that science has something to add to religious explanations. There is NO reason to believe that. Religious ideas are NOT limited in any way by what science finds.

    Pitting religious solutions and science solutions is just plain bogus - leading to no positive end and even confusing both religious methods and the very definition of scientific method.

    One would hope that any science cirriculum would include the definition of scientific method and the limitations it has when coming to the supernatural.
     
    perdidochas and Bowerbird like this.
  21. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,863
    Likes Received:
    8,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am talking about Advance Level biology! Where did I mention high school?
     
  22. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The heart is a pump... you don't think with a pump.
     
  23. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,863
    Likes Received:
    8,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The syllabus stated that all theories must be included which were Darwinism, Lamarckism and theories based on religion. The lecturer spent about 10 minutes on religion, about a week on Lamarckism and the rest of the year lecturing on the evolutionary tree of plants and animals, in each case starting at the simplest organism showing the progression and simularities up the evolutionary tree
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  24. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Doh! Apparently you don't understand that it's a figure of speech subject to cultural understanding..
     
  25. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The OP was talking about high school. Of course evolution is an important part of a university biology education. That's not what this thread is about. Why are you talking about your university classes?
     

Share This Page