religion trumps science in education by LAW

Discussion in 'Science' started by Jonsa, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yup
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only assumption in science is that we may meaningfully observe the universe.

    There aren't any other assumptions.
     
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    however if it involves a state employee coercing someone to say that their religion is wrong that is the state interfering with religion.
    if you disagree with Communism and a state employees such as a teacher tells you know you're wrong that would be the equivalent.

    I don't have a problem with that. if however when you're teaching evolution you course of children into saying that their religion is wrong you are violating constitutional rights. You can talk about evolution without bringing up religion.

    if the instructor in said class required you to agree with the religion in order to pass the class, that would make it analogous to the subject. And it would be a constitutional violation.

    hearing philosophy or hearing about religions or hearing about a solution learning about these things isn't analogous to a state employee coercing you into saying your religion is wrong.

    I agree that's why I didn't say that.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A state employee can teach how science works, how communism works, how Christianity works, how Himduism works, how geology works, etc.

    They can't teach that Hinduis or some other religion is right or wrong.

    Suggesting instructors should accept wrong aswers on how any of these things works is a direct failure of education.
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    sure they can and you're not going to get an argument from me about that because I agree with it. However teaching people about these things does not require that they admit that that religion is wrong.

    That's the problem.

    I'm not suggesting that instructors should accept wrong answers. I'm suggesting that they shouldn't Force students to say that their religion is wrong. That's a violation of the Constitution.
     
  6. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A faulty one and easilly disproved.
     
  7. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This whole issue goes away by the teacher posing their questions in a way that makes it clear what they are looking for..

    If the question is. How did life on earth start a creationist answer is legit.

    If the question is explain how evolutionary theory is credited for the development of life on earth it allows the teacher to evaluate what the student has learned about the theory of evolution.
     
  8. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. It deals with what happened after.
     
  9. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok.. that's not what i was taught in highschool.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't believe that's what's going on.

    What I hear is more a matter of people objecting to being required to answer a question in terms of the system being taught. That is, arguing a point from the perspective of communism in a course on communism or arguing a point from the perspective of science in a science class.

    This is a standard and fully legitimate method in education.

    In fact, an inability to understand and argue your opponents points is likely to lead to failure in clarifying one's own position.

    We see this every day in discussions of religion and science, for example. And, I do not mean just on one side.

    For example, all those people posting "scientific" reasons that there is no god (or its varients) are failing to note that science can not address that question. And, we see similar nonsense in the other direcion, with religious individuals posing "scientific" arguments against settled science - suggesting that laws of thermodynamics prevent development of complexity, etc.

    Allowing religious answers in science class just propagagates total failure in understanding what science is, how it works, what its limitatios are, what its fundamental assumptions are, etc.

    There is NO way to pretend that is a positive in education.
     
  11. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then you went to a shitty highschool.
    Abiogenesys is the theory of how life was createdf, not evolution.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    do you know what's going on?
    it doesn't matter what you hear. It matters what is happening.

    This is a standard and fully legitimate method in education.
    I've already said I don't agree with accepting wrong answers on tests so this is superfluous argumentation.

    Please focus on the point I'm making. it doesn't matter what you believe it doesn't matter what you hear it matters what's happening.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But, the OP indicates a state law that says teachers must accept wrong answers if the worng answer is based in the student's religiion - whatever that might be.

    That has no place in education.
     
  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I agree that evolution is how species adapted to different environments but that's about all i am convinced of.
     
  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They need to learn how to write their tests better. You have to be able to write a test to where you can judge a pupil's retention without making them except your worldview.

    It's one of the hard things about being a teacher. If you can't do it you need to find another job.
     
    Robert E Allen likes this.
  16. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Scientific theories cannot be proven. It's impossible. That's not how science works. Math theories can be proven, but not science. So you're asking for the impossible to be taught, which is just scientific theories that have been proven.
     
  17. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Evolution is not a religion. It's a scientific theory.

    I'm a devout Christian. I go to church every Sunday, and I go to religious studies on Wednesday nights. I also think that based on the facts of the world, that evolution is the best explanation for the way the biological world is today. Claiming that evolution is a religion is just incorrect. Science and religion deal with two totally different areas of human endeavor. Science is a study of the natural world. Religion deals with the supernatural.
     
    Hand Solo likes this.
  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly. Just have to preface the question with "According to evolutionary theory" and the answer has to be based on evolutionary theory, or it will be marked incorrect, regardless of the religious views of the person being tested.
     
    Polydectes likes this.
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not per the Bible. Genesis 1 clearly says that man was the last to be created.
     
    Hand Solo likes this.
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At what age can we expect a student to retain an understaning of what class they are in?
     
  21. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I believe that evolution is how species have adapted to different environments since thr flood.


    Ok evolution isn't a religion. But. Lots of people treat it like one .
     
  22. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok.. i agree. And?
     
  23. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,730
    Likes Received:
    8,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If they were the last to be created then how can they be witnesses?
     
    Hand Solo likes this.
  24. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know what this question has to do with the subject so I'm not going to answer it until you explain.
     
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Did i say they were the witnesses?
     

Share This Page