Remember where we turn when disaster strikes

Is god going to fix it? No. Wiil prayer make it magically disappear? No. Is Sean Hannity or Limbaugh going to fix it? No. Can trump lie it out of existence? No. Can Mitch McConnell make it go away by denying it exists? No.

When people are dying - when the bs ends - we turn to "liberal" science for real answers needed to save our loved ones and way of life.

 

It’s looking more and more like liberal science created the F’n thing.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but in my experience most members of the Christian faith regard prayer as a means of communion with God which in turn is supposed to motivate them to action, trusting in their faith to guide them towards a solution to their problem via their best efforts. It is not regarded as a reason to sit on their ass looking to the heavens while God solves their problems for them.

Television evangelists aside try just talking to someone you know who is a Christian, one on one over a quiet coffee and see if I am mistaken.

 

Well, I was raised with religion and have attended many christian churches. And I put the lunacy of religion behind me long ago; as soon as I could shake off a lifetime of brainwashing by religion, that started in early childhood. Something I consider to be a form of child abuse. But that isn't the point.

The point is the constant, idiotic attacks on science by people of faith, right wingers, and trumpers. But when the chips are down, science is the only thing that can save them.

 

Perhaps. That doesn't change a thing. It only speaks to the real power of science.

Maybe trumpers would prefer to leave the science to the Chinese.

 

Brainwashing is to often a convenient catch phrase used by some people to describe teachings /philosophies they disagree with. I assume if parents chose to raise their children according to a strict atheistic world view that would not, in your opinion be regarded as 'brainwashing'? But if another another couple chooses the opposite course then they are 'brainwashing' their children?

As for abusing them? Deliberately denying children access to education in any arena be it the study of language, mathematics, history, science, culture or any other field of human endeavor could be construed as a form of abuse.

Labeling any belief system you disagree with, regardless of its type as brainwashing simply because you disagree with it is also intellectually lazy and convenient. This is because it no longer requires the person making that accusation to justify their own arguments or question, stop/check their own beliefs. And that fact works both ways. Any theist who is challenged on their beliefs also faces the same issue - ad has an obligation to critically assess and justify their own position. I works both ways - so suck it up.

'Constant, idiotic attacks on science by people of faith, right wingers, and trumpers.' Your conflating region, politics (and support for Trump) in one sentence. As if they are all one in the same, which they are not. There are hundreds of millions of followers of Christianity in the world, only a tiny % of whom are actively engaged in 'idiotic attacks on science' as you put put it. And most of them BTW are based in the US.

The vast majority of Christians in world have no quarrel with science and/or are active supporters of the benefits it brings to the world. In addition some Christians are right wing in their politics and some left wing i.e. Evangelical Christians tend toward the right of politics while other Christians in more conservative branches of Christianity can and do tend to support more left wing agendas e.g. avoring state intervention in the economy in support of the poor and needy.

As for Trump? Since when has religion had a monopoly on self serving, narcissistic populists. History is littered with them and most haven't been religious leaders.

 

the equivalent of a tire store dumping a box of nails a couple of miles up the road?

 

Explain how science is “liberal”.
I can understand how bias might influence funding, drive areas of investigative interest, and even shape interpretative narratives, but the methods of scientific investigation are both spiritually and politically agnostic and any proffered conclusions are subject to critical analysis from any quarter.

 

There is only one scientific method.

And, there is no evidence that the virus causing COVID19 was created by man.

 

What is your motivation not to suspect it being man made? No, there isn’t any evidence of it being man made yet, but look how effective it is. I’m not invested in China in the slightest but this is looking pretty suspicious to me. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know yet. But where do your motivations lay? Why so enthusiastic to defend China? This global scourge came from China, why the enthusiasm to defend China? I find your stance suspect.

 

Motivation has no place in a scientific investigation of where COVID came from other than the motivation to find the truth.

Effective?? It killd large numbers of Chinese and took a major bite out of their economy. Why would China see that as "effective"?

Accusing China of stuff for which there is no evidence is a seriously stupid way to promote America.

And, blaming China for having bats and pangolins is equally stupid - so if THAT is what happened (which actually seems possible, as opposed to the lab accusaions) they once more can't be held responsible for that. Emergence of a new virus is an uncontrollable tragedy that has happened in many places on Earth.

In fact, the first case of Spanish flu was detected at a military base in Kansas. If that is indeed where it started is that our fault? We know for SURE that it didn't start in Spain, yet that's what people called it. They got the tag because they were allowed to broadcast such news during the war - while the US and the rest of Europe were under military injunction against such news. So, it's Spanish flu because THEY had a free press and WE did not.

 

What was Lieber charged with?

 

He's one guy. He got caught.

Lieber is an example of our system working.

 

Science isn't 'liberal' or 'conservative.' However, like economics and spirituality, it can be driven by an agenda or manipulated to drive an agenda.

Consider vaccines: everyone knows you can train the average immune system to defend itself from a virus by introducing a weakenned version of that virus via innoculation. Everyone also knows preservatives are unhealthy by their very nature of being poisonous. But in the context of vaccines, when folks who try to limit their preservative intake become wary of vaccines that are manufactured with a priority on shelf life and thus contain higher-than-necessary levels of preservatives, they're accused of being fear-mongers and anti-science just because it would be too inequitous to offer 'cleaner', less shelf-stable and thus more expensive vaccines to those who can afford them. The agenda of course being the promotion that healthcare is a 'right' and we all deserve to receive the same quality. Its not science's fault that some folks want cleaner vaccines and are unwilling to risk their individual health for the rest of the herd, nor is it science's fault that other people are afraid of the social consequences of offering different qualities of vaccines to those who prefer and can afford higher quality (safer) products. Its the fault of political agenda that manipulates the scientific discussion of the issue and politicizes and polarizes it.

 

What was he up to? Obama paid the wuhan lab, the wuhan lab paid Lieber. What is going on here?

 

What's liberal science, where one lets others do the experiment and has the government give them the credit?

 

Yes - it was good that there was a lab there.

But, your attempts at a conspiracy theory are not even slightly justified.

 

He wasn't the one who labeled it "liberal" science. Thus the quotes.

So, please respond with that in mind.

 

Why? What’s wrong with being suspicious? Why do we have to accept the narrative? Why does it mean so much to you? What’s your motive?

 

Other than really inaccurate models and putting people on deathalators science hasn't provided anything very effective against the pandemic so far.

 

Claiming science belongs to a political party is just pure, partisan blindness, Disconectted from reality

 

My motive is a truthful timeline.

 

Yep, the seeds of conspiracy; people looking to blame somebody, unfounded allegation of a human causal agent using technology that doesn’t exist.
Yes, the technology for genetic editing (CRISPR variants) is progressing, however, if anyone followed CRISPR development closely, while we can edit certain genetic sequences, we are still a long way from cataloging the what specific sequences (billions of them) combine to result in what physical attributes, much less than designing changes to a virus for specific effects. If we could, we’d already have developed an effective anti viral and a vaccine.
We are able to compare genetic sequences between different genomes for shared characteristics and that has allowed the tracking of changes in the virus, of which, at last I heard counted, there were at least 8 and there is enough known that virus mutations can be tracked.
https://www.technologyreview.com/20...cking-the-coronavirus-outbreak-as-it-happens/
If there is any aspect of a conspiracy that makes sense, it is still the likely supposition that the virus was likely retrieved from an early victim and being studied in the Wuhan lab, a lab with less than stellar isolation protocols, from which the virus was accidentally spread, and then the Chinese Government suppressed the early stages of the spread to save face..... saving face is an important thing in Asian everyday common culture, amplified at the high levels of Government. I suspect, the ‘saving face’ efforts will ultimately be revealed as the ‘great China virus blunder’... but there are those with varying agendas that will continue the man-made narrative as support for various conspiracy theories.

BTW, MIT (see article above) is one of the major institutions (along with Berkley, and SoCal) heavily vested in CRISPR research, and has even developed a higher level programming language to implement editing and decoding sequences called Cello.

http://news.mit.edu/2016/programming-language-living-cells-bacteria-0331
You can sign up for an account, see tutorials and libraries here....
http://cellocad.org/

 

True, but there are differences in who looks to be advised by science and who looks to hide or ignore science.

Like every other idea in politics, that doesn't necessarily break perfectly on party lines. But ...