Remember where we turn when disaster strikes

Discussion in 'Science' started by HereWeGoAgain, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Dear! Seems time to hand out the tin foil hats again!
     
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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And claiming that “democrats want the pandemic to kill people so Trump won’t be re elected” isn’t?

    What are some of the others?

    “Democrats are trying to kill people by blocking the use of Trump favoured drugs.......”

    I could go on

    Bottom line

    We are in this together and the only way forward is to dump the partisan bullshit
     
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  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should go tell the people making those claims?
     
  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    A political party who pushes "infinite genders" has no business calling anyone "science deniers" or claiming to be the "party of science".
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Claiming to be the party of science doesn't really work, because science isn't politics - it informs politics of the results of science.

    However, there isn't any question about which party is more likely to listen to science - as your own post clearly indicates.
     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    What a lofty perch.
     
  7. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    When I’m not provided the truth, I am entitled to formulate a conspiracy theory In fact it is my duty as an American to start questioning the narrative. Just as general patton said, “if everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking”. I don’t trust China in the slightest. I don’t trust our media in the slightest. I don’t believe this virus was hatched in some rain forest. I believe it was hatched in a test tube.
     
  8. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    What? The 'truth' has to be handed up to you on a platter like a double cheese burger and coke? Here's a wild idea. Why don't you use your initiative (and brain) do some research and start looking for evidence of the truth yourself so you can find out exactly what the 'truth' is in any particular situation. Your suppused to be an adult so do some work and stop expecting stuff to be handed to you on a platter.

    Your 'entitled' to do lots of things like for example walk into oncoming traffic. Doesn't mean you have to though does it?

    By all means question the narrative, that's both sensible and rational. But if you don't trust the media it behooves you to do your own research and fact check the issue for yourself. Not believing what the media tells you does NOT mean you automatically accept the opposite as gospel. As for China? By all means don't trust them - they are the ones who have a vested interest in proving the virus emerged somewhere else after all. But no-one is saying it emerged 'in the jungle' they are saying at it most likely emerged in a Chinese 'wet' market' where one poor sick animal was exposed to potentially hundreds of people before finally infecting just one random person. That was all it took. One animal with a viral infection stuck in a cage in a live animal market with lax public health standards. Who needs a conspiracy when you have human stupidity, greed and corruption to do all the hard work for you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  9. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    I’m not buying the wet market narrative either. China was far to proactive in concealing the truth, silencing experts, and spinning a narrative. China was F’n around with this thing and it got away from them.
     
  10. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Look, forget conspiracies for the moment. China has every reason to dissemble and divert attention away from themselves simply because the basic public health systems in Wuhan (and hence the Communist Party itself) screwed the pooch so badly in the handling the initial outbreak.

    Wet markets were responsible for the last 3 major viral outbreaks in China (SARS etc). And Communist official have repeatedly failed to deal with them. Wet markets are an important cultural tradition in China and the Party has consistently refused to act against them for fear of a public back lash. Which would be acceptable if in lieu of closing them down they enforced strict, uniform public health standards and where necessary quarantine measures in all the markets across the country. But they don't. Corruption and public inefficiency are endemic in State and local government in China. You think your local public officials in the wherever you live in the US are corrupt and inefficient? Compared to China you are living with a model public service.

    China doesn't have to bother with biological warfare experiments to infect the rest of the world. All they have to do is fail to enforce basic public health standards across their food chain. Standards BTW that are taken for granted in the West. That and their high population densities, combined with a cultural addiction to the live animal trade in foods basically guarantees events like this are going to happen there every decade or so.

    And if you don't believe how lax public health standards are in China look at what happened with regards to the Chinese baby milk formula scandal - then ask yourself would that happen in the US or anywhere else in the West on that kind of scale?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with the fact China and indeed many third world countries could do with better public health care infrastructure and controls China is not the only place in the world to see recent zoonotic infections

    [paste:font size="5"]
    bird flu
    • bovine tuberculosis
    • Campylobacter infection
    • cryptosporidiosis
    • cysticercosis
    • enzootic abortion
    • erysipeloid
    • fish tank granuloma
    • glanders
    • hemorrhagic colitis
    • hydatid disease
    • Leptospirosis
    • louping ill
    • lymphocytic choriomeningitis
    • orf infection
    • pasteurellosis
    • rat-bite fever
    • Salmonella and E. coli infections
    • streptococcal sepsis
    • toxocariasis
    • trichinellosis
    • zoonotic diphtheria

    https://www.healthline.com/health/zoonosis#list-of-diseases


    Not to forget Australia’s contribution Lyssaviris and Hendra virus
     
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  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I am
     
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  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Not while telling me about it, just painting things onto me, I never said. Like asking me if I am going to stop beating my dog.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Questioning the narrative is not the same thing as concocting a conspiracy theory.

    Patton wasn't asking for conspiracy theories. He wanted people to examine the hard facts and figure out how to get the job done.

    The problem with your last sentence is that there are scientists from multiple countries investigating the source of this virus. And, they are saying that it wasn't made by humans.

    If your news is ignoring that, you absolutely SHOULD question your news source - and widen your source of news, too, because how else are you going to find out what isn't adding up?
     
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  15. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    So when you, are presented evidence (links to science arguments I provided that you obviously didn’t read), and reject it as not representing ‘Truth’, you feel entitled to fabricate a truth. Hmmm.... that is interesting logic.
    Not trusting the assertions of a polity is one thing. Weaving your own conspiracy is nothing more than aspiring to be a Hollywood script writer, you know an entertainment media that entertains by weaving scripts requiring people to suspend belief and logic for entertainment.
    Me, I believe China developed the virus as a bioweapon, in collaboration with the Dems, released it in China, sacrificing a few of their billions to the larger cause and providing some measure of deniability, knowing it would spread and create havoc in the world, create economic chaos (bringing other counties down to a better level for China’s ability to emerge more competitive) and as a pilot project, allow China to monitor weaknesses in the world’s pandemic response, so China can prepare for better planning the real attack. See, I can build an outline for a script too?
    But, hasn’t the script already resulted in a video? The TV series Condor casts rogue elements of the CIA in a plot to release a plague, (the US has an antidote) at the Hajj in Mecca. Hmmm... how many similar plots has Hollywood churned out???
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ah! You are not getting the point
     
  17. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Also AIDS and in the US Hanta virus! The list goes on. And reverse zoonoses while rarer also occur. A Guardian article referenced a study identifying some 56 different occasions aground the word in recent times where people were responsible for infecting animals with serious viral, bacterial, fungal or parasitical disease.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Liberal scientists who don't want a vaccine so the economy doesn't recover, so trump doesn't get reelected, announced that a vaccine has entered Stage II testing in record time.

    It has been demonstrated to produce a strong antibody response in test subjects. And those antibodies have been shown to be effective in deactivating the virus.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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