Rights - god given? inalienable? self-evident? natural? WRONG

You can't say a right cannot arise from a unilateral decision when every right that has been mentioned has been a unilateral decision.

I never said i wanted to live in a non-civil society but played devil's advocate to prove to you that rights are nothing more than things the majority of people agree to, nothing else. When people start talking about 'god-given' or 'natural' or 'self-evident' it's a con job, a way to silence others. It's easy to silence someone by telling them 'they are god-given okay?' but it's not easy to back any of this nonsense up.

A right is nothing more than a society getting together and agreeing 'this is a right' and it can be anything. This is why when i hear people tell me 'healthcare is not a right because...' it holds no water, it's a right if the majority deems it to be. There is nothing sacred or divine about a right..

 

Then we disagree. That is mob rule. If you think that's a right, then you disagree with my definition, so we go with your definition and hopefully for you and yours, my mob isn't bigger than your mob.

This is also why I have been for Trump rolling all over you guys and doing everything he can to hurt you. Take your healthcare and throw it in the garbage, take your PC, and shove that as well. Take whatever he can take from you, and I'm all for it.

Because YOU and your ilk have refused to agree to anything beyond mob rule. So let's see where we are three years from now. Whatever happens to you, remember that you had your chance, and you told us "to hell with you and dump Trump".

You asked for it, so you're gonna get it.

 

They're State Collectivists. authoritarian little buggers, at that.

To rectify and justify their sense of entitlement to more other-people-financed free stuff, leftists must have you believe your rights are bestowed by The Collective™, and therefore subject to change as the needs of The Collective™ necessitate.

 

i'm a Trump supporter, looks like you haven't spent too much time reading my other threads where i vigorously attack liberals for being hypocrites and party of identity politics.

Having said this, i don't agree with Trump on everything but Trump isn't an ideologue so it's part of why i like him. He could easily be convinced to support single payer if he talks to right people. We shall see...

as far as mob mentality, you also agree on mob mentality because every right you think is sacred has been determined by a majority, 'the mob'.

 

these are facts actually, all rights have been bestowed by the 'collective majority'. This is a fact, not an opinion. God didn't come down from the sky and tell us 'these are your rights my children', in fact, there is a lot of killing referenced in the bible. There are also no natural rights. Natural laws cannot be violated (try breaking law of gravity) but rights? no such thing.

You all ignore facts, rights are nothing more than what the majority have agreed upon, nothing more, nothing less.

 

it's what actually happens in nature, the very same thing we would be doing without all these rules set my the collective majority. Go to amazon jungle and run into some indigenous people, they even eat each other. Will you tell them 'HOLD ON! I HAVE RIGHT TO LIFE!'... they will disagree with you on what is a right, you can try explaining that right to life is god given (a god they will not recognize) but i don't think it will fly.

 

So we are back to non-consensual sex between the football team and a girl who the majority has decided is going to have lots and lots of mob ruled "consensual" sex, as is the football team's right.

You are correct and since the football team is the majority, they have collectively decided that the girl has no rights when it comes to having sex.

This is what you are arguing for.

 

Probably not, unfortunately.

At least you have been quite consistent with what you consider rights to be. I don't agree, obviously, because I don't believe it is a right of the collective to rape or murder or steal from people who are not of the majority.

but you do...

 

At the very least, I got Mike to agree that he thinks rape is not possible if the majority has ruled that she has no right to say "no".

I've known this about them for awhile, but it's rare when they actually deign to talk about rights. Usually, they're too embarrassed to come right out and admit that this is what they're about.

 

Your MAGA hat has been recalled, because the rest of us trump supporters don't wish to be afffiliated with...

you.

 

As they don't understand the philosophy behind rights and laws that preexist government (Natural Rights and Natural Law), they cannot begin to understand the principles upon which this nation was founded or the US Constitution. It's pretty sad, really...watching them flail around trying to justify their (the 'Collective Majority's') "rights" to vote themselves middle class or better lifestyles for having accomplished nothing more than fall out of a vagina on US soil.

 

He can't understand how others don't instantly know.

 

So whatever we agree on should be so?....really? Not!! We are a Republic with laws the protect our Natural Rights. Example......two wolves and a lamb sit down and vote on, "what is for dinner?" The wolves, of course want to devour the lamb, but that violates his right to" life and the pursuit of happiness." Because we are a Republic with laws that protects our "liberty"....that cannot happen. Out rights come from God and cannot be taken away.

We have a "natural" right to enjoy the fruits of our labor. Of course we decide it is in our mutual interest to have protection from invading entities that would deny our right to life and the pursuit of happiness so we have taxation for that purpose. However, to extract those fruits for the purpose of redistributing them according to the wisdom of a few is a direct violation of "natural law". Healthcare does that. I do not control the healthcare habit of others and rightfully so. Why should I be required by force to pay for negligent health habits?

 

Much as we hate to admit it, might is right.. There is no such thing as a natural right and certainly no god given rights. All discussions about rights really boil down to who we invest that might in and how we decide those rights we wish to have are adopted by might.

 

All have them, most governments oppress them.

 

I think that you are wrong on this. A good deal of the founders, Franklin and Jefferson being the more prominent, weren't exactly Christians. The term 'god' is not in the constitution, only 'religion'. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson made God subordinate to Nature.

 

Being as a god is a construct of the human imagination, I really doubt it (a god) has the ability to grant rights to anyone. Fact of the matter is that it is philosophers and legislaturors that define, and give us our rights. The was a time in America that blacks and Indians had no rights. Women have only had the right to vote a little over a hundred years.

In North Korea people don't exactly have rights. Why is it, I wonder, that your god only gives rights to those people whose government gives them rights?

 

Not to confuse you with rational thought or anything, but if one's rights are denied, one has no rights.

 

What's the hottest positions being debated? I see general agement amongst the brightest minds and a few elements supported by less than bright minds.

 

You seem to think because your right is suppressed that it does not exist.

That is like saying because you had your drivers license revoked that cars do not exist.

 

Over the course of my life I have spent a lot of time in nature, observing the natural world. As far as I can tell natural law boils down to whatever one can take for one's own use before another takes it away or kills one. In nature there is no god. Gods only reside in the imaginations of some humans.

 

Back to rational thought. If your driver's license is revoked you no longer have a right to drive, and if found driving face arrest and prosecution.

 

Godley men and women fought for equal rights in America from the beginning.Check the history.

 

No, God gives human beings the ability to have compassion and empathy for others. It is an individual thing. At the same time, evil rages within us. It is an individual choice, not a collective mandate.

 

so you can't prove a god exists, or that it gave us rights.

Thank you