Roe v Wade: plaintiff's death highlights weakening of abortion rights in US

As a freedom-loving American, I am grateful for your service. It looks like we both want the same thing. I just cannot allow laws to force people to do what I think they should do no matter how right I think I am. Thats not freedom.

 

So, you want to force women to undergo harm. Says a lot.

Yes, abortion is self defense. No ifs ands or buts.

Hospitals are not people. A woman can hand her newborn over to others to care for.

Suicide is NOT illegal. And yes, the zef could be said to be part of the woman's body as long is it is inside of and attached to it.

 

Thought you might be interested to know that in the last 6 months Planned Parenthood has been flooded with volunteers.

Thank You Trump , your election awakened many people to the dangers of your administration and are fighting back.

They answer phones, call congress people who are attempting to take away women's rights and instruct others on how to do the same, protect women entering the clinics from the freaks outside, support and guide patients, flock to protests, make noise .....and contribute money.

 

Before we start, that's what I meant when I said "from morning sickness to labor." Seriously are you that blind you your beliefs that you can't reason?

None of which is for self defense, let alone lethal force.

Which again are not justifiable for self defense. "Your Honor, the reason I shot him was because he gave me stretch marks." Yeah, lets see that stand up in court.

I didn't knew spousal abuse was a disease or some sort of physical symptom. But either way, again, hardly any of these symptoms are justifiable in self defense and even if they were, they aren't accociated with every pregnancy and I challenge you to find any woman who aborted their unborn child because of these symptoms.

If these symptoms cause enough harm to threaten the life of the mother then I would be ok if they had to abort the child.

Prove that said none of this happens. As for your second paragraph, so?

None of the harm that happens (for the most part) is justifiable for lethal self defense.

Pregnancy does not fall under that right.

Yes, because I'm a sexist pig for wanting to protect the unborn from wanton killing.

Why?

However they are force to take care of the well being of the children or patient. It's a different method but the principle is the same.

Consent does not mean that you intentually kill another human being. In fact, no self defense law grants anyone to intentually kill anyone. You are allowed to use force necessary to stop the threat.

Science disagrees with you. It's a separate entity with it's own DNA.

Slaves used to be considered property.

So what if the court decides that the unborn have human rights to live and you can't have an abortion unless it threatens the life of the mother? That's the question you have to anwser if you want to hide behind a court ruling.

I do t have the right to kill. I have the right to use lethal force. If the assailent lives or dies is none of my concern. Abortion's sole purpose is to end the life of the unborn.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Yes, they are based on opinion. Whether or not the opinion is based of data is irrelevant.

The right to life trumps the right to be unharmed.

You have to first prove that abortion is self defense before you try to guilt trip me.

 

You want to force the unborn to go under a torturous death on the whim of the mother. That also says a lot.

Nice opinion you got there.

The people who work at the hospitals are people.

So a parasite is also a body part?

 

I noticed that like ALL Anti-Choicers , when faced with what happens to somebody else, they minimize what happens to women during pregnancy by cherry picking stretch marks. How convenient to turn a blind eye to what your mother, wife, daughter and other women go through to have a kid.


Yes, pregnancy DOES harm a woman enough so that IF the fetus was deemed a "person" she would have the right to stop the harm, ANY WAY she could


Just because you think you more know than science, and doctors and lawyers doesn't make it true.



You: ""However they are force to take care of the well being of the children or patient. It's a different method but the principle is the same.""

NO, it is NOT. Caretakers do NOT have to use their physical body parts to sustain the life of another as pregnant women do and if you can't tell the difference than you shouldn't even be in a debate.

. They can't even be forced to hand feed a patient or change the sheets.....


You cannot be forced to share blood or give someone else your heart or kidney.....so no woman has to use her body to sustain the life of another ...you may, in your denigration of women, feel they shouldn't have the same rights as you but they DO !

 

You have to use hyperbole , "torturous death" to make a point so you don't have a point. Neither a zygote nor a fetus undergo a "torturous death" .

The fact that you want to force women to undergo pregnancy while dismissing what they go through says says a lot about you...and none good.

 

The zef doesn't feel a thing, so no, there is no torture.

ETA: The vast majority of women who abort do not do so on a "whim".

Thank you.

Who said they aren't?

What???

 

Because it is only POTENTIALLY a baby. High early natural losses of pregnancy mean that early abortion in particular (the type that is currently becoming more and more a choice) may only circumvent what would happen in any event.

Besides freedom to choose when to reproduce means empowerment for women and better standards of living all the way around. Of course it would be better if there were more reliable cheaper contraceptives available or if men took an equal share of the contraceptive burden.

 

I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. you listed stretch marks among other things to try to justify why abortion is self defense.

First you need to prove that.

You're talking to yourself in the mirror?

Uh, that was the difference I was pointing out, Einstein. Sure, nurses aren't using their physical bodies to sustain life but they are, as nurses, forced to care for their patients.

Yes they are if they want a job and not get sued or charged.

You cannot be forced to share blood or give someone else your heart or kidney.....so no woman has to use her body to sustain the life of another ...you may, in your denigration of women, feel they shouldn't have the same rights as you but they DO ! [/QUOTE]

I agree. abortion is not a right, though.

 

Stretch marks are IN a list , a long list, of harm that women endure during pregnancy.

I did NOT try to use stretch marks as the only reason women could use self defense as a justification.

(I just told another poster in another thread how Anti-Choice men always pick out stretch marks among that whole big list to try to minimize what women go through, Thank You for providing me with proof )

Prove that no one is obligated to let another "person" harm them? You need proof of that!?

I NEVER said I know more than doctors or scientists....that would be you.....

You don't get the difference (and I sure won't call YOU Einstein )

Nurses are NOT forced to give blood or body organs to sustain the life of patients.....agree or prove that they are....
.

FoxHastings:""" You cannot be forced to share blood or give someone else your heart or kidney.....so no woman has to use her body to sustain the life of another ...you may, in your denigration of women, feel they shouldn't have the same rights as you but they DO ! """"

Ya, a legal medical procedure is a right, and women have a right to their own bodies whether you agree or not.

 

However that list is not enough for self defense.

What?

However you're claiming things that science has proven to be false.

That's the difference I'm referring to.
.

Not when that procedure kills the life of another human being.

 

OH? Guess what ? Abortion is legal and happens all the time so I guess you are so wrong

Ya, a legal medical procedure is a right, and women have a right to their own bodies whether you agree or not.

And yes, anytime another person even tries to use another's body to sustain their own life or cause them harm the right of self defense enters into it.

Whether you agree or not( what YOU think just does NOT matter) pregnancy does cause women harm so IF the fetus is ever deemed a "person" the woman could use self defense to have it aborted.

YOU can't change science.

YOU can't change the law.

You can't give the fetus more rights and less restrictions than anyone else.

 

exactly....

 

anti-choicers will never be able to force rape victims to have their rapists baby...

 

But they WANT to !!!!

 

sad but true

 

Says someone who will never, ever be pregnant.

Abortion does not kill a human being.

 

It's right because the law says so. That's literally what your argument amounts to. By that logic slavery is right becauseit was legal. And what if sometime in the future abortion is no longer legal? Would you then say it's wrong because it's illegal?

The Nazisdeemed medical experiments on Jews to be legal. We're they right?

Yet the point of self defense isn't to kill. That's just a by product of you defending yourself if you use lethal means. However abortions sole purpose is to end the life of the unborn.

Neither can you.

Actually I can. It's just difficult.

I'm not.

 

Yup, if the law( the Constitution) says women have rights, they do.

Yes, at the time of slavery people thought it was legal but it involved persons with rights so the law was changed.

What a convoluted, and unsuccessful, attempt at using Godwin's law.

The point of self defense is to stop unconsented harm to yourself ANYWAY you can.

There is only one way that a woman can stop unconsented harm by the fetus...and that's abortion.

I'm not the one trying to change science.....

Oh? And just how are YOU going to have RvW repealed?

What's your Big Argument that you'll present to the Supreme Court? (That no one else has thought of in 45 years )

YES, you want the fetus to have more rights than anyone. YOU want the fetus to be able to use another's body to sustain it's life....NO ONE ELSE CAN DO THAT.

 

That phrase was added to the constitution. It was originally people. Besides, you still didn't answer my question. What if the court ruled that the unborn is a person and it is protected?

I other words you have no rebuttal.

That isn't why women have3 abortions most of the time. Even if it was, it's not justified.

Oh yes you are.

I can either vote in the right candidates or run for myself

That all human life is created equal.

I want the unborn to not be killed at wanton.

 

They can't, no one group can have special rights over others.

As I have told you so many times IF a fetus is deemed a person it may have rights but it also will have the same restrictions..

OK, I'll address your ignorant and child attempt to tie Nazis and what they did to abortion.

You : ""The Nazisdeemed medical experiments on Jews to be legal. We're they right?""

Did they? Did the Nazis say medical experiments on Jews were legal? WHY would they have to make it legal DUH, they just did it.

OH BOY, another in the big list of righties who knows nothing about Nazis but LOVVVVVES to throw that word around...


The NAZIS forced some women to have abortions ..were they right?

The Nazis forced some women to give birth , were they right?


NOW let's address how you denigrate Jews, real persons, , and the horrors they suffered and compare their suffering to the quick death of a fetus....
DISGUSTING...
I'm sure the Nazis didn't think the Jews suffered enough...EITHER..

Of course "self defense" isn't the reason women have abortions and NO one said it was......

IF the fetus is ever deemed a "person" it would have the rights and RESTRICTIONS of all other persons....

"Persons" cannot harm others without their consent.

YOU want fetuses to have super rights and harm others without their consent......

Uh, WHO are the right candidates....the ones who promised for 45 years to overturn RvW ??? LOL! They haven't

You'll "run for myself" ???? What does that mean , you'll run for Supreme Court Justice ? Better get started with that law school thingy....

You're a laugh a minute....I think they heard that one before.....and you will have to bulk up your argument a whole lot more...

Why? What difference has it made in your life?

 

Can't compare what nazis did to women AGAINST THEIR WILLS,
You can't call something a life of something that isn't alive. You can terminate a pregnancy before it becomes a life. A ZEF is a POTENTIAL life

 

Ah, there goes the Godwin!

Time to put you on ignore, I guess.

 

Godwin is relevant....especially today!