Roe Vs. Wade should be overturned

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Joe knows, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No bad formatting reformat so I can respond without having to edit it all.
     
  2. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    What is an "unborn baby" other than not-yet-born? Could you define what rights are and explain why they apply to those-that-are-not-yet-born? Isn't the baby I have not yet created, technically speaking, also an "unborn baby"?

    Does your love for "the unborn" have anything to do with the Christian view that every baby is born with sin and that "the unborn" therefore are precious because they are without sin?



    No, no., no. This is just pure biological ignorance. A zygote is nothing like an embryo which is nothing like a fetus and none of tjhe previous are anything like a newborn. A newborn is, for once, physically spearate from the mother and now free to interact with the world on its own. Furthermore, it is far more developed than the precious stages and in the earliest stages (at conception) the being is just a single cell organism and claiming that is something equal to an actual baby is just idiotic.

    Nope. Only ones changing "the common language" are the anti-abortionists. "Unborn baby" is not a real thing. ZEF, on the other hand, is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not a Christian, it has to do with my education when I was majoring in biology and taking courses in embryology. What is an unborn baby, a baby that has not been born yet. What's your point. It is a baby that has been created, a human life, a person.



    No one said they are, but they are all STAGES of that human life, that began at creation, that that unborn baby is going through just like every other human being that has ever existed went through. And babies and mothers are kept separate in the womb by the womb and the placenta else babies would not survive.


    Taking Care of You and Your Baby While You’re Pregnant
    https://familydoctor.org/taking-care-of-you-and-your-baby-while-youre-pregnant/

    How to Keep Your Unborn Baby Healthy
    https://www.verywellfamily.com/ways-to-keep-your-unborn-baby-healthy-4136940

    Before you can take care of your new baby, you need to take care of yourself and your unborn child.
    https://health.ucsd.edu/news/features/pages/2016-01-05-36-pregnancy-tips-listicle.aspx

    Taking good care of yourself during your pregnancy will give your growing baby the best start in life.
    https://www.babycentre.co.uk/a536361/10-steps-to-a-healthy-pregnancy

    I'm pregnant. What should I do — or not do — to take care of myself and my unborn baby?
    https://www.womenshealth.gov/a-z-topics/prenatal-care

    You were saying?
     
  4. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Pleas define person.

    Haha, yes you said it!

    Oh my, oh my, The same old conflation of potential and actual. When will it ever stop? A five year old will one day be of the age of consent. At that age, they will still be the same human life and the same person, so why don't you advocate paedophilia to be legalised? That is different you say? How is it different? That is exactly the kind of lunacy your argument leads when pushed to its logical extreme.

    It is not born yet. Birth is not aribitrary, it is a very major event and has always been celebrated and seen as such.

    What the heck are you talking about? Did you get your Embryology degree in a Happy Meal by any chance? :laughing:
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    LOL, tough questions so you forgot how to use the quote function ???


    It's formatted like all the others you were able to answer ;)
     
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    All your effort and still, no matter what YOU call it, it has no rights :)
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not according to our founding documents as I have cited over and over but I know it makes you happy, as indicated by your smilie, that this "no rights" claim of yours means the mother can choose to kill her unborn baby, have the abortion.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And tired of attempting to figure out what is what and having to edit because of your weird formatting.

    Reformat and I will as like I always do respond to it. Unlike you..........
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    LOL, tough questions so you forgot how to use the quote function ???




    It's formatted like all the others you were able to answer ;)



    FoxHastings said:
    LOL, tough questions so you forgot how to use the quote function ???




    It's formatted like all the others you were able to answer ;)
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Nope, haven't seen any documents saying a fetus is a legal person who can get a SSN and be used as a tax deduction.

    :) Yuppers! :) :)
     
  11. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    The fetus exhibits no brainwaves, and thus is not a sentient being, until about 22-24 weeks.

    The Supreme Court defines death as the absence of brain waves.

    Therefore, the fetus is effectively "dead" until such time as brain waves emanate and the fetus is a sentient being.

    Perhaps not, but the 4th Amendment provides for privacy and healthcare is a private matter between patient and healthcare provider.
     
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  12. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Oh, okay...we are living Biblical Law now? So, if you eat on the Sabbath we can execute you by stoning? I see...
    "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according to what the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine..." Of course, we know so much more now about a fetus that it is alive and it's taking in oxygen through the mother's placenta. It is very much alive and today our prophets say so. Again, the bible is correct as far as it is translated correctly and things left out in which I would say there was. Nevertheless, today, we go by science on when a humanoid is alive. The heart is beating and the brain is functioning, the humanoid is alive. Same at death as well. So, why not before birth?
     
  13. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Uggg...you simply refuse common sense understanding of law. Is Roe v. Wade the law of the land? Yes or no? If yes, then the U.S. Supreme Court made it so. That is legislating from the bench.
    I don't have any more rights than a woman does. I can't kill an unborn child either. In fact, if I do, by law, I can be found guilty of homicide under the law. But, if a woman kills her own unborn child, she gets off scot fee.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think you have it backwards on the punishment thing.

    The Biblical law of Ezekiel let is know that there was no punishment for causing an abortion through violent behavior. The man whose wife lost the fetus was compensated for the loss of property.

    Then, you bring up your prophets. I'm fine with you having your prophets. But, they don't get to decide that women don't have dominion over their own health. We don't make law based on religion. Your prophets don't have standing on judging others.

    There were plenty of "prophets" of various religions that saw same sex marriage as something our government should prevent. Those religious opinions of prophets were not even part of the argument of the case before the court. And, the court was comprised of those espousing Catholicism or Judaism alone - but they know what our constitution says about following prophets.

    I don't see why some religion should have standing to block what a woman and her doctor decide. If she respects your prophets, she can follow them. If she respects something else, she can follow that. It is her decision, not your decision and not your prophet's decision.
     
  15. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Since when did doctors become judges, law makers and prophets? They do profit from doing abortions and that is why they do them. And, most of our laws have always followed biblical laws like the 10 Commandments. You don't think we should have any laws based on the 10 Commandments? It's okay to steal?
    You don't get to decide anything either. So, who does? People with religious and non-religious beliefs do. Of course religious beliefs can influence lawmakers. How silly to suggest otherwise. The compensation was a fine and therefore punishment. Duh! And, again, we know so much more about a fetus today and know that it is alive. It's a sin to kill a fetus for profit or selfish desires.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Doctors have the information that we all need in determining our healthcare. They aren't present for judgement. They are present for help and information.

    Read the ten commandments - lol. Most of those do not have laws. And, yes I absolutely DO believe we should not have laws based on the ten commandments.

    That doesn't mean it's OK to steal or murder. It DOES mean that the ten commandments are NOT a valid basis for laws, nor do they provide guidance in how those laws should be written.

    Compensation is NOT a fine. Compensation is compensation.

    I'd point out that Leviticus law metes out death as the punishment for laws that are of surprisingly little consequence. Yet, Ezekiel law on loss of a fetus due to a violent attack is that the loss of the fetus is a loss of PROPERTY and thus only requires compensation.

    That's a stark measure of relative value and importance - wearing clothes of two fabrics (death penalty) vs. abortion (property compensation).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    YOU claimed the Supreme Court wrote laws....they still don't.


    Prove it...show your unborn fetus's SSN .... use it for a tax deduction ???


    Why do you want some "persons" to have more rights than other persons ????



    NO, they upheld the law...get a book on civics.



    WHO said you did ?



    What do you mean by "either" ?

    Yes, if you are pregnant you are allowed to have an abortion.





    Well, ya, you aren't allowed to harm others.

    Yup, her body, her choice. :)



    STILL unanswered questions:

    ...show your unborn fetus's SSN .... use it for a tax deduction ???


    Why do you want some "persons" to have more rights than other persons ????
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    What do you have against being paid for work?

    Don't YOU get paid?





    No.


    That's not based on the Ten Commandments....it's based on reason and logic.


    Uh, most people have known for thousands of years that a fetus is alive...it's not news..





    So you be sure not to sin !!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  19. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the Supreme Court is the say so on life.
     
  20. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    So what exactly is telling the heart to beat?
     
  21. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for admitting your Science IQ is -10,000.

    Medulla oblongata. Or, colloquially, the brain stem.

    The brain stem controls autonomous functions.

    The brain stem has no bearing on sentience; does not make you conscious; does not give you your personality; does not store memories; does not think; has no bearing on intelligence (or lack of); and plays no role making you who you ultimately end up being.

    If we removed your "big brain" from your brain stem, you would be nothing more than a hunk of flesh taking up space and costing everybody a whole lotta money.
     
  22. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    They based their decision on science.

    Occasionally, infants are born without a brain, but they do have a functioning brain stem, just like people who suffer traumatic brain injuries from gunshots, beatings, falls, car accidents, work-place accidents, strokes, drugs, alcohol, Oxygen deprivation (from drowning or asphyxiation), concussive blasts and the like.

    They're alive, but they're not living. They don't interact with their environment, nor could they interact with their environment.

    All that they were, all that they knew, and who they were; it's all gone. They're nothing more than a chunk of meat.
     
  23. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Doctors should be held accountable doing the killing. At one time, they were by laws made by the people's representatives. Again, the laws are constructed by religious and non-religious persons and voted upon through our democracy and set up in Congress and State legislations. So, over time since the Constitution, there have been more laws on the books in towns, counties, states and congress that had more of the ten commandments. This may swing back in the future to include more of the ten commandments and other religious laws. Heck, there are cities in Minnesota trying to institute Sharia Law.

    Compensation was a fine since it was the law to do so. Anyone with a sense of comprehension and understanding knows this. We have the same thing today where in a lawsuit, the victim is compensated for different reasons. Hey, keep living in the past under The Law of Moses. I've moved on.
     
  24. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    There was no law on the books that abortion was legal...
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    YOU claimed the Supreme Court wrote laws....they still don't.


    Prove it...show your unborn fetus's SSN .... use it for a tax deduction ???


    Why do you want some "persons" to have more rights than other persons ????







    That is NOT an answer to any of my questions.
     

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