Rue, Britannia <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

I voted to remain as did where I voted 'my native London' voted to remain.
Don't I have the right to change my mind? See a better deal for the UK not in a hostile undemocratic bloc of one size fits all and damn the expense EU?

 

I seriously doubt independent Scotland will be welcome in EU. As you said, Spain will not allow it simply to discourage independence movement in its own country. I bet other EU nations have internal separatist regions and everyone understands that encouraging such things will lead only to trouble in the future. Also, by supporting Scotland before it splits the EU nations open themselves up for a very real war with the U.K. and considering that germans military isn’t worth dog feces, they don’t have that many chances of winning.

 

Eastern Germany left USSR sphere.
It’s not doing that bad. Has a few Nazis, but who doesn’t, right?

 

Then do a straight, clean trade agreement with the UK.

In reality you people aren't pro-free trade. You just hold it hostage to European federalism and ever closer union.

If you don't want a free trade deal without a multitude of supranational strings attached then you don't want free trade. That's fine, WTO tariffs aren't too bad, anyway.

And Sabo, enjoy you and other German taxpayers picking up the UK's shortfall in net contributions.

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This is not the end for the EU obviously, but it will be if they do not instigate heavy reforms to make the EU less technocratic and more tolerant of different policy across member states.

Prague is not Berlin. Athens is not London. Budapest is not Paris.

 

It certainly is my business. I am Scottish and I most certainly have no intention of living under English Nationalism.

If you did want to include everyone, it would be the UK, not Britain or British but Brexit is first and foremost about English Nationalism, Hedge Funds and some people hoping to make billions out of the suffering of the people of England. Given that the American's were involved in illegal donations, they do also have a place.

 

How on earth would the EU be able to have war with the UK if the UK was no more. Of course you are just suggesting that one of the fundamental benefits of the EU would immediately end if the UK leaves the EU - that is that it has kept peace within countries forever at war since WW2 and lastly your belief that the German Military is hopeless. From what I am hearing if German goes ahead with following Trump's demands on the money it spends on its military, it will very soon be one of the top militarises in the world capable of taking anyone on.

 

What makes you believe that is not what they are offering?

 

You mean the Chequers agreement?

 

I am not talking about any agreement. You claimed

I asked you to explain why you believe that is not what they are offering. Of course the hard Right Brexiters have been wanting No Deal since the Tories did a pact with the DUP to keep them in power. Negotiations are two way. You were the one who claimed they were not offering a straight, clean trade agreement. I asked for your reasons for thinking this.

 

That wasn't a trade union, that was a defense pact like NATO. And the economy of East Germany is still rather crappy compared to the west.

 

Because they offered a deal which was not a clean trade agreement and have since consistently refused to renegotiate it.

Is there any route to free trade which does not involve the four freedoms - no. The EU has made this clear.

 

explain why.

During the Referendum Boris and friends were saying it would be the easiest thing in the world to get whatever deal they wanted. Brussels would be begging us to keep trading. This of course was not true and the moment they had conned people into voting Leave they started shouting No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.

The Non Leavers said the best we could possibly get if we left the EU would be an EEA deal. This would give us much the same rights but also demand much the same responsibilities and we would no longer be one of the 3 big voices in the EU.

Your belief that the EU should give the UK the same rights not in the EU as in it makes no sense. It is making a mockery of what membership of the European Union is about. It would appear to be a thinly veiled attempt to destroy the EU. Clearly the EU will not say yes to that. Hence I would say that what you are wanting is not a 'straight, clean trade agreement with the UK' at all.

 

See, it wasn’t just the military union - east Germany was involved in a lot of trade with USSR. After reunification with the West, all trading links with USSR were eliminated.
UK splitting from EU won’t be come cataclysmic “end of U.K.” event.

 

You do not have the right to change the minds of 59.9% of Londoners, nor anyone else's for that matter.

The only way to determine the current majority opinion is to take a current vote, the populace now being far more cognizant of the ramifications and less vulnerable to propaganda and Farage's lies than it was in 2016.

Knowledge is good.

 

meh.. the truth is the EU is going to sorely miss the UK's financial contribution, basically Brexit is leaving Germany & France holding the bag... or purse, there's no real financial contributors left

 

A hard border in Ireland and they can kiss peace good bye!!!

 

Plus any chance of a quick trade deal with the US.

 

I'm sure they've gamed out various scenarios, so I think we'll see some short-term economic pain. It's the Irish border that's the powder keg.

 

There are 9 net contributors, that is 9 countries which give in more than they get back. Most of those who are not net contributors come from East Europe which the US pressured the EU to take on asap.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

However it is not as simple as that. Wales which the Westminster Government would leave to drown receives a considerable amount from the EU. They are going to really suffer if Brexit goes ahead, possibly why even they are now beginning to talk of leaving the Union.

 

Offer Britain the same deal the US gets on trade

But keep the refugees from africa out of the UK

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...is-johnsons-bid-to-remove-the-backstop-brexit

So what are the 'No Deal' Brexiters up to? Possibly want the hard border to get the DUP support for No Deal. Then given their ideological support for NI leaving the UK, just leave it to them to fight or not....
still forgetting the desperately wanted US trade Deal.

 

Leavers were sold a bill of goods. Now they are seeing the results of that vote. The UK will exit without a deal, the EU will let them go and then the markets will destroy the pound. This is the most likely outcome of this idiotic decision to leave the EU. Once they exit the EU with no deal, do not expect Ireland and Scotland to remain with GB. Poof, there goes a once mighty empire, done in by a bunch of *****.

 

Boris attempting to renege on his predecessor's backstop accommodation dooms the UK.

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• Officials in Dublin and Brussels have ruled out UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's request to strip out parts of the Brexit deal negotiated by his predecessor Theresa May.
• Johnson wrote to European Council President Donald Tusk on Monday asking Brussels remove the Irish backstop from the withdrawal agreement, something it has repeatedly refused to consider.
• Tusk responded Tuesday by accusing Johnson of seeking to reestablish a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
• "The withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation and the backstop is not open for change," a European Union source told The Guardian.
• Ireland's governing party, Fine Gael, also rejected Johnson's demands to remove the backstop, which is designed to avoid the emergence of border checks on the island of Ireland.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-new-brexit-plan-rejected-by-eu-officials-2019-8

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17.4 voters in the UK voted for a hard border in Ireland, and they won.
Although you may believe 'leave' is the same as 'remain' of course.
No border, no brexit.

 

What? If France and UK can agree to keep a UK border in Northern France citing a pre EU agreement, then UK can leave safe in the knowledge that it can be sure that it won't be the UK putting up any border but the EU and if the EU want a border, that's up to the EU; why not give ROI a vote to have a Brexit border imposed by the EU or an exception for ROI to be both out of Schengen and out of the EU customs aligned with post Brexit UK customs to offer EU a chance to work with Brexit customs post UK in EU trade deals.

I dare say you assume it's the UK who wants a border when truthfully it's the EU who will break the Good Friday Agreement.
Read the Irish media and you'd see it's not UK to blame for a border but Brussels.

I say let ROI vote on British customs or EU border; make it up to them what they want so they can decide their own fate.