Russia’s newest Su-30 multirole jets and Su-24 bombers practiced attack runs on NATO

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Destroyer of illusions, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All of that still does not explain how you think Putin is allowing 110 rich people to rob Russia blind. As far as China is concerned they use the US to advance their own development & it worked, any additional benefits are just icing on the cake.

    Freddy.
     
  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    First of all China's Economic Development was and is part of a LONG TERM U.S. PLAN which began when Nixon visited Red China and this plan was designed by Nixon and Kissinger and the CIA to allow China to export goods to the United States even if there was a Trade Defecit and at the same time China slowly allowed aspects of American Companies such as KFC.....and Pepsi Cola then more and more Iconic American Culture Specific Exports to China that would slowly CHANGE CHINA FROM A COMMUNIST SYSTEM TO A CAPITALIST SYSTEM!

    Today the Chinese Communist Party Leadership STRUGGLES finding excuses for it to exist.

    Whether it be American Movies or Culture China is slowly changing.

    Russia's problem is not it's people....it's when Putin SEIZED ALL LARGE SCALE PRIVATE COMPANIES IN RUSSIA!!

    Every single formerly Private Company was seized and is now run and controlled by these 110 Putin Buddies and it does not take much to find this out as all you have to do is Google a large State Owned Russian Company....find the Name of the Person designated as it's CEO or State Owned Company Leader Designation....then Google that persons name and see their connection to Putin.

    EVERY SINGE ONE OF THEM is a former member of the KGB, FDS, GRU, Soviet Military or Old Soviet Communist Leadership.

    This will take you a few minutes to realise who is running Russian Businesses and it is PUTIN and his associates.

    They put out their own Profit and Loss Books and these figures are false.

    That is not difficult to prove as their giving False Data as they make the mistake of Bragging about how much Oil and Gas they export....thus take those figures and current prices they sell say...Oil to China is sold at $120 a Barrel....when the U.S. and Canadian Price of a Barrel of Oil is about $59.

    Where is all this Profit Money going????

    It sure as HELL is not going into Russian Infrastructure!

    AboveAlpha
     
  3. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have always thought of the Chinese as natural born traders & business men, they are just stringing the US along for as long as they can before the US realises they have created their own main capitalist competitor.

    Russian investment in infrastructure is getting better all the time. Laws have also changed to make easier private investment into infrastructure.
    http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2015/russian-crisis-creates-opportunity-private-infrastructure-investors
     
  4. yacc

    yacc Member

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    Yes, I would rather consider Low Middle Class as a poor.
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    You don't fully understand what the United States achieves and how it benefits from turning China from...well most of China is STILL poverty stricken but things are getting better....turning China Capitalist.

    We have ALLOWED a Trade Imbalance to exist for almost 45 years....but in return China is really no longer a Communist Nation.

    China is just 15 years alway from becoming a Democracy...it will happen when the Old Chinese Communist Party Leadership OLD GUARD MAOISTS die out.

    China places filters on Internet Access to their Citizens and the reason they do this is because the Chinese Communist Party and Leadership REALLY NO LONGER SERVES ANY PURPOSE!!!

    So they JUSTIFY THEIR EXISTENCE by brutal tactics.....which make Putin's Folleys look INNOCENT IN COMPARISON!!!

    I like Russian's as I was there for long periods of time and they have a sense of Humor about their Old Communist System that I enjoy as no one tells better JOKES about Stalin and Putin than a Russian!!!

    But China is not a Military Threat to the U.S.....nor is China an Economic Threat to the U.S. as we hold ALL THE CARDS!!

    China IS A MILITARY AND ECONOMIC THREAT TO RUSSIA!!!

    This is why I am very concerned that Putin has done a 180 degree turn as Putin has stated more times than I can remember that RUSSIA WILL NEVER ALLOW CHINA UNFETTERED ACCESS TO SIBERIAN OIL AND NATURAL GAS!!!

    Not only is Putin now considering this the worse part is PUTIN WANT'S TO ALLOW CHINESE WORKERS TO DEVELOP SIBERIA INSTEAD OF RUSSIAN WORKERS BECAUSE CINESE WORKERS COST 1/10TH TO 1/20TH WHAT RUSSIAN WORKERS COST!!!

    WHY?

    So Putin and his 110 Buddies have lower development costs and can rake in more money.

    My Russian Friends who mostly live in and around Moscow are aware of this idiocy and they are ANGRY AS HELL!!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Being a member of the communist party in China does not mean the indevidual concerned actually has any belief or commitment to communism (Chinese style or not). Business men & people who want to travel overseas join the communist party for example but it kind of makes the whole thing self defeating & according to a Chinese friend of mine who I have not spoken to in a long time less than half of the Chinese communist party members take it seriously.

    The most convincing thing I have heard about the Chinese leadership is that they are trying to transition China to a market based economy, something they have obviously used the US trade relationship to help achieve. Whether that eventually results in a De facto two party democracy like the US, a multi party democracy like Russia or some form of more democracy from within the Chinese communist party only time will tell.

    As for Russia your friends there they are sounding more & more to me like they were members of the Jewish Mafia that took over many industries in Russia with the fall of the Soviet Union.

    Freddy.
     
  7. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    My Russian FRIENDS who live in and around Moscow are not Jewish.

    They are my Cold War Couterparts who I met many times during the Cold War and then met again when the Soviet Union Collapsed and when I was in Russia with my Team as we provided Security for U.S. Military Weapons Destruction Teams.

    These friends of mine are as Russian as one can get.

    Many were former GRU, KGB, Soviet Military and they are all just trying to live their lives with their families.

    AboveAlpha
     
  8. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you said this:

    Quote - My Russian Friends who mostly live in and around Moscow are aware of this idiocy and they are ANGRY AS HELL!!!! _ Unquote.

    Ordinary Russians support Putin, he has about an 85% approval rating in Russia sense the US organized coupe in Ukraine happened. I have heard of three not so ordinary groups of Russians who don't like Putin, the Muslim terrorists (who you said you fought = not friends), those ex members of the Jewish Mafia in Russia who refused to come in from the cold & participate in a legitimization process & got made an example of or fled the country (you have already said they are not Jewish so it's not them) & the gay community (Don't worry, I won't make you come out of the closet).:fishing:


    Freddy.
     
  9. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I hope Russia develops a successful economy...but it won't with their current plans.

    AboveAlpha
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It is true that Putin is able to draw on an Older Russian Population that remembers the days when a Soviet Leader said something peole listened.

    Putin has rallies and draws to him these people as he blames the U.S. for their problems.

    But Putin's approval rating is NOT 85%.

    Putin controls the Media...Putin controls the Polls...etc.

    AboveAlpha
     
  11. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you use president Bushes approval rating of around 50% before 9/11 & a jump to over 85% after 9/11 due to the fact that Americans rally around their president in a time of crises & Putin's ratings went from somewhere in the mid 60s to 85% with the crises in Ukraine the Russians have rallied around their president just like Americans do. It makes 85% very believable & probably accurate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_George_W._Bush

    Freddy.
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the case of Sergei Magnitsky proves that terrible problems still exist there.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...d-lie-falsely-accuse-his-former-employer.html
    Sergei Magnitsky refused to lie and falsely accuse his former employer!

    As I was driving home from work about a week ago I heard a CBC radio interview with this man's former employer.

    I got the impression that if Mr. Sergei Magnitsky had been willing to lie..... and falsely accuse his former employer the beatings would have stopped!

    I doubt very much that I would have been so courageous for so long if I had been in his situation!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but Putin's ratings are being driven by a PUTIN CREATED CRISIS!!!

    The U.S. does not want to hurt Russian's.

    But we would certainl like to see Russian oust PUTIN!!!

    There is a REASON why a U.S. Presidet can only be elected 2 times....8 years total.

    Putin is changing the Russian Constitution to read more like SOVIET DOCTRINE!!

    This is going to be Russia's Problem!!

    RUSSIAN'S are going to have to deal with a man who refuses to step down or leave office as Putin want's to DIE in Office!!

    If Putin attempts to annex a swatth of the Ukraine by the Western Black Sea Shoreline to connect Russia with the Crimea by land.

    Putin and Russia will see just how economically powerful and influential the United States truly is without ever firing a shot.

    You want to sell your Exported Goods to the WORLDS LARGEST MARKET that being the United States....then....YOU NO LONGER CAN BUY OR SELL ANYTHING WITH RUSSIA!!!

    To....CHINA.....You still want us to continue allowing you to export huge amounts of JUNK GOODS to the United States as none of these Goods has any strategic importance to them and they are not really needed....and you still want us to allow you to have a TRADE EXPORT IMBALANCE WITH THE U.S.?

    Well China....how about this for a deal......YOU ACCEPT ONE MORE BARREL OF EAST SIBERIAN OIL OR ONE MORE CUBIC METER OF RUSSIAN NATURAL GAS.....AND THE UNITED STATES WILL NO LONGER ALLOW CHINESE GOODS TO BE EXPORTED AND NOT ALLOWED INTO THE U.S......the worlds largest consumer market!!!

    But hey China....CHEER UP!!

    In return for ceasing doing all business with Russia......the U.S. and Canda will sell you ALL THE OIL YOU WILL EVER NEED AT ONLY $59 a Barrel instead of the $120 a Barrel of Oil the Russian's are charging you!!!

    You cut off Russia and you can continue to sell your goods in the U.S.....and we will even increase our Coal Exports to you by 10 FOLD!!

    So China...what will it be.....Pay $120 a Barrel for Russian Oil?

    Or Pay $59 a Barrel for U.S. and Canadian Oil !!!

    AboveAlpha...p.s...the U.S. and Canada can supply you with all the LNG you need!!!!
     
  14. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia has banned the imprisonment of people before trial who are charged with tax fraud after a public uproar in Russia caused by Magnitsky's death. It's sad but sometimes it takes an incident like Magnitsky's death to prompt positive changes for the future.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
     
  15. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RUBBISH. The proof - VICTORIA NULAND!
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Victoria Nuland is Rubbish?

    AboveAlpha
     
  17. yacc

    yacc Member

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    Putin do not cotrol media. For instance Russian Business Consulting is rather liberal site with a lof of critics of Putin.
    But what is matter is that I am able to ask my friends from deeper side of Russia what they think about Putin.
    A I listened answer 'He is Great'
    That is why Putin has at least 70% of rating.
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to have a POLL done by a completely exterior entity but even if this is done people in Russia are frightened to express their actual feelings about Putin.

    Putin is not what Russia needs right now.

    Russia needs a strong leader yes....but a strong leader who places Russian's above himself.

    This is not Putin.

    A PARTNERSHIP with the United States is the only realistic path to create JOBS for Russian's.

    Putin intends to hire Chinese Workers to develop parts of Siberia because Chinese Workers work for 1.4th the wages Russian's would work for thus more money and more Profits for Putin and his 110 Buddies.

    How can you support a Leader who stages FAKE MARTIAL ARTS MATCHES as Putin has this desperate need to display his own personal strength so they get some Big Russian Kid who is Military and is told to LOSE to Putin in a Match.

    So the kid throws the match and Putin will win but is that enough for Putin?

    NO!!

    He goes and breaks the Kids wrist.

    Put ME in the Ring with Putin....I promise I won't kill him....but I will teach him a lesson.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Abraham Lincoln is certainly one of my all time favourite American Presidents. Apparently he saved American taxpayers FOUR BILLION DOLLARS in interest payments.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...our-billion-dollars-how-can-we-do-2013-a.html
    President Lincoln saved taxpayers four billion dollars...how can we do this in 2013?

    I was given a copy of this article in 1994.

    After reading this article those lectures from Economics 101, 212 and Economic History sure took on a whole new level of importance.

    http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm
    Melvin Sickler:
    OK, so how do we apply this information in 2013 without scaring the guys on Wallstreet, who have a tendency to go out on their balconies and jump, if investors get scared....which actually could happen even if government did something intelligent!!!!!???????

    …..BUT…. if you were a member of one of North America's 48 First Nations Tribes…… you might look at President Lincoln very differently…… the same principle is true of President Putin.

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/red-mans-view/how-lincolns-army-liberated-the-indians/515559085195891
     
  20. yacc

    yacc Member

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    Ok. Do you have a candidate to take a look at?

    Oh my God! What JOBs do you mean?

    Do you have experience of being president of US to teach Putin? :)
     
  21. DonRumataEstorsky

    DonRumataEstorsky Banned

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    I have to upset those who hate Putin. Putin will be re-elected for one term. Thus he will be manage the Russia until 2024. What do you think about this?
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Your probably right but this still does not change the fact Putin is not the right leadr for Russia right now.

    Russia needs JOBS.

    Russia also needs to diversify it's Economy which is HIGHL DEPENDENT...TOO DEPENDENT...on Energy Exports.

    In 2015 over 80% of the Russian Economy will be from Oil and Gas Exports....the last 18% will be from Weapons Sales, Vodka Exports, Caviar Exports and very little else.

    Russia needs to create an Economy of PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANIES that sell Services and Goods to RUSSIAN'S!

    But without Good Jobs the Russian Economy will continue to shrink and Putin has estimated the Russian Economy will decline by a MINIMUM OF 5.5% and a MAXIMUM of about 7.1%.

    U.S. estimates have the Russian Economy declining by about 7.5% to possibly as high as 11.8%.

    Credit Swiss a very independent, accurate and non-influenced by other groups and UNBIASED source calculates the Russian Economy in 2015 could decline as much as 12.5% and at minimum 7.3%.


    Anyway you look at it....Russia is in a state of Economic Decline.

    In order for Russia to become Economicaly Viable...it needs Private Industry and this will only develop if RUSSIAN JOBS are generated first.

    The SAFEST BET for Russia is for Russia to partner up with the U.S. in the fields of Space Tech, Siberian Infrastructure Development and FARMING.

    The U.S. has vast knowledge in Farming and bringing our experience in this could solve the constant year after year failure of Russian Wheat Crops.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. DonRumataEstorsky

    DonRumataEstorsky Banned

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    Your head is full of stereotypes about Russia. Oil and gas sector accounts for 40% currently. Americans are very arrogant. You think you know everything. You poke nose everywhere with his blunt advice. I think the police acted very brutally in Ferguson. In 2015, US police killed 500 people. Your president is very undemocratic. You must be corrected. For this we need to bomb all cities. We must apply Cassette bombs, napalm, yellow phosphorus, shells with depleted uranium and pour something on your head from the assortment of Monsanto. We must catch all over the world the Americans and torture them. So the Americans are doing the last 100 years. But that time is over. Now next to your head will always be Russian pistol with the hammer cocked, a knife next to your throat and dynamite with a smoldering wick in your ass.
     
  24. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Unreal.

    Russia invades and annexes a neighbor and this guy blames the U.S.....what a JOKE!

    AboveAlpha
     
  25. DonRumataEstorsky

    DonRumataEstorsky Banned

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    When the Russia came to the Crimea no one have been killed! The Russia comes to where people want it. If the US I would not did a coup in Ukraine, then Russia would not come to the Crimea. When the Soviet Union collapsed in the Crimea it was a referendum and the people voted for an independent Crimea. But Ukrainian fascist troops entered and suppressed people. We waited for 25 years when Russia will get stronger.
     

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