Russia to West: D-Day wasnt decisive in ending WW2.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    And you guys were allied to Stalin at one time. It's all about supporting the lesser evil. The US did take steps to have the worse of the corrupt leadership replaced. I will agree the US has supported some really unsavory characters simply because they were anti-communist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  2. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    The Schlieffen plan lost them the war since it required the German army to invade neutral countries that brought Britain into the war.
     
  3. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "argument" that a given govt is "corrupt" therefore we should support Communist insurgency against
    it is reprehensible. Lenin sought to start WWII in the 1920's by invading the "corrupt" nation of Poland, and
    then he hoped to take "corrupt" Germany" and "corrupt" France.
    Yes, there was "some" corruption in Sth Vietnam, same as in Taiwan and Sth Korea. But that was plain
    stealing. Communism is of itself corrupt - it did more than just steal (that's why the Viet Chinese hid their
    gold when Hanoi corruptly broke its peace agreement and invaded Sth Vietnam from the country they
    were not supposed to be in - Cambodia) The result was total corruption - overthrow of law; stealing of all
    land and assets; mass killings; abject violation of human rights rah rah rah rah.
    And the Communists weren't alone in this TOTAL CORRUPTION, so too were their Soviet and Chinese
    backers, plus their useful idiots in the West who swallowed their propaganda.
    Google "useful idiots."
     
  4. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    There comes a long list of dictaotrs supported by the USA as result :-D

    Sorry ... I only destroy the BS myth that the US did a good war in Vietnam by supporting a democratic country against evil cimmunist insurgents ... and that this is a lie is simply fact!
     
  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America did not say Sth Vietnam was free of corruption. No country, even the USA, is free of corruption.
    It's a matter of degrees. By its very definition Communism is corrupt - not 10% or 20% but in the totality
    of its behavior (note - not doctrine, but behavior. Favorite saying in Sth Viet after 1975 "don't listen to what
    they say, watch what they do.)
    Without the USA the whole of Asia and Europe would be under Communism. And we can be sure the
    people who claim to be "against the corrupt Saigon govt" wouldn't breath a word about what would happen
    next.
     
  6. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    Interesting point.....

    Russia would have fared much better in WWII, if they didnt sign a deal with Nazi Germany to split Poland between them, and start the war....
     
  7. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    It is not only corruption ... it was a bloody fu***** regime which depressed his people!
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So do you think the Communist govt might have "depressed" the people too?
    Many thousands drowned trying to reach Australia.
    Many more were thrown into "re-education camps"
    And many more were murdered, or sent to fight China or Cambodia (no sign
    of any "peace activists" then, was there?)
    Saigon "corruption" was an excuse from corrupt people.
     
  9. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    D Day or No D Day
    The Nazis were finished.

    Without D Day it might have taken Stalin longer, but Germany's defeat was written by then.

    Consider the Soviets were fighting 90% of Germany's resources
    while the allies were fighting just 10%.



    Moi
    :oldman:





    invadecanadanewban.JPG
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
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  10. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Declaring war, and actually being aggressive are not one in the same.
     
  11. Kathie Harine

    Kathie Harine Active Member

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    The Frankfurt bankers were clueless. They were fools to buy the Greek bonds. Also you keep on Greece and have given no reason to not have a separate currency for the South. There really is a difference of cultures in Spain, Greece, Portugal, Greece, and Italy versus Germany and other northern European countries. Continued support for everyone having to be in the eurozone by Germany speaks volumes about who is benefitting. Also I have always said that a separate currency for southern European countries should have the exact central bank controls that you espouse; hence, there would not be a repeat of the current problems.
     
  12. Kathie Harine

    Kathie Harine Active Member

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    You are correct. Most learned military historians in the United States have the same opinion. The only real argument is whether the Battle of Moscow, the previous winter, had already sealed the fate of the Germans by the time of the Battle of Stalingrad.

    The two great battles of the Great Patriotic War - World War II were the Battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of Midway from which the Japanese never recovered.
     
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Kursk still counts for Soviet strategy and size and significance.


    Similar to :flagus: and Midway, the Soviets had some good intelligence networks
    advising time and location of where the Germans were going to launch an attack along the Kursk battle lines. As well as Japan not messing with Siberia.

    Target A F Has Fresh Water Problem! ;)

    :flagus: glorifies the war against the Nazis more although
    more lives lost, and material were used against Japan.
    Well Nazis were the more glamorous enemy :lol:


    Moi :oldman:


    CanadianAlien-1.jpg
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.


     
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  14. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    No, you simply don't. You have a lot of leverage over your neighbors, but they also have a lot of leverage over you. Your country, more than any other major nation, is dependent on your neighbors continuing to purchase from you.

    The destabilization of Europe, and it is going to destabilize, is going to hit Germany harder than anybody else.

    It always does.
     
  15. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    It's not just Greece. Italy and Spain are also suffering significantly from the European monetary system, and France to a lesser extent.

    Y'all got a little too antsy in the early 2000s, I think.

    Greece would have been easy to fix: Cover their debts entirely. And why didn't you? Because it's their debt, not your debt. A German to a Greek is not a Texan to a New Yorker. That is the fundamental reason the EU will not live up to the promise we saw in it. It will probably still exist in some form, but it will never be anything like a "United States of Europe."

    You want to know what the next big event will be? Two events are inevitable, and these will be the next big twist European politics faces: First, some major global recession akin, if maybe not so severe, to the 2008 recession. Southern Europe will have trouble paying it's debts, and the split between these countries and countries like Germany will grow further still. In Russia the political system will completely collapse, with the unity among the oligarch-class breaking down. The result will be an opening of Russia, especially to German capital. German influence in Russia will explode. Central European countries like Poland and Romania (and many others) will start to get nervous about this warming German-Russian relationship. The next big event is climate change, which is going to throw the Afro-Eurasian landmass into complete disarray. Immigration out of Africa and South Asia will cascade northward, likely, I think, to radicalize populations around the world rightward. The Europeans will at first try to absorb the torrent, but will eventually attempt to completely stop the flow, and possibly even reverse it.

    Sadly, I think we're in for a very bloody century, and you Europeans are going to do the lion's share of the bloodletting.
     
  16. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the Russians can make a solid argument that Dday wasnt decisive, it was many factors and the Russians drained massive and I mean massive amounts of manpower and supplies from the NAZI effort. No one can doubt their valor nor their sacrifices in the Great war was a pivotal facet in destroying the German supply chain management across so many fronts.

    To do so as the OPs opinion is doing is openly brazenly biased. This is coming from about as patriotic American as you can get.
     
  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Greece, great example of robbing working people for
    Globalism.

    The Greek Islands were a fishery that more local Greeks cultivated for sustainability.


    Opps, here come the E.U. permissible German factory ships and
    the fisheries are gone.

    Imagine that!

    Who Profits.
    Who Suffers.
     
  18. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    And afaic....we should've taken Berlin...and Leipzig(we should've never turned it over to the Sovs), Dresden, and the rest of EG....the Russkis should've been halted in Belarus somewhere. Wouldve been no cold War, Berlin Wall, Hungary, Czech uprisings, Berlin airlift, or any of that garbage.
     
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  19. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    44% of Germany's divisions were on the western front in Jun 44. 150 vs 60.
    https://www.axishistory.com/books/1...-of-german-divisions-by-front-in-world-war-ii
     
  20. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Better for Germany but not the European countries the Nazis occupied.
     
  21. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is your family hoping to bring fascism back to Germany?
     
  22. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Yup. We do tomorrow. Dude get real
     
  23. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hitler proved Nazis were liars and couldn't be trusted.
     
  24. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    General Patton didn't give a **** about Russian suffering. He would have fought to push Russia all the way back home if he had his way. Giving Russia East Germany and East Berlin was not a reward, it was to prevent the US going to war with Russia.
     
  25. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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