Salt Lake City - Police shot 13 year old with autism

Her emergency isn't OUR emergency. This is for her to deal with,not the state or city. Grow up.

 

He was standing still 20 yards away from the officer(s) who fired around 10 times at him

 

SLC PD released some other videos about half an hour ago. I haven't watched them all to see if they show anything different:

https://www.youtube.com/c/slcpd/videos

 

From your list this appears to be the main video which shows the body cam of shooter:

 

Still haven't watched all the videos, but there's some interesting commentary that sheds some light on the mindset of the cops in this video at ~4:30:



Female: "I'm just watching for him to walk out"

Male: "We've just got to make sure no there's one else inside the house too"

Female: "Right. If(?) this is a psych problem, she's out of the house, he's in the house, I don't see why we should even approach, in my opinion."

Male: "That's in our policy now, isn't it?"

Female: "I don't know if it is or not, but honestly, we can call sergeant, tell him the situation, because I'm not about to get in a shooting because he's upset, sorry."

Male: "Especially when he hates cops and probably an <unintelligible> shooter"

Female: "That's what I'm saying. This is exactly what we talked about last week."

(I'd encourage you to listen to it yourselves to see if you can make out any more or in case I've transcribed something wrong).



At 6:45 there's some discussion about the apparent weapon that the boy had.

Mom (I think): "I don't know it's a BB gun. I don't know if it's a pellet gun. I don't know if it's a prop weapon because my other son -

Cop: "But you don't know if it's a real gun?"

Mom: "I don't believe it's a real gun. I don't believe it's a real gun."

Cop: "So unfortunately, we have treat them all as if they are."

Mom: "Right, I know."

ETA: shooting happens in last 15 seconds of video, but it's hard to make anything out because of the poor lighting.

 

From the video, his feet & legs were moving just prior to the shooting. He wasn't running anymore, but it looked like he was still walking away. He steps from sidewalk onto the grass in the park strip and then back onto the sidewalk.

 

They also posted the 911 call audio:



It's interesting to hear how she described the situation to the cops vs how she described it to the media. Quite the contrast.

 

Lol ... that was the worst and most rediculous lousy statement!

If you get a heart attack or whatever serious wound ... then it is YOUR emergency and not OUR ... and it is to you to deal with it and not the state or city! Are you fine with this?

 

She sounded so calm suggesting that she exaggerated the whole situation in the conversation with the emergency call centre. What was this so-called previous "shootout" with the police. She repeatedly said that she didn't think it was a real gun or whether he had any gun, toy or otherwise - perhaps she even talked about guns so that someone would respond. She talked about him having a BB gun or prop gun. She clearly was fed up with her struggle bringing up that boy and has been let down by the mental health teams

On the call she actually asked for a CIT officer and the number to ring is 911!.

Now for the police response - nothing in any of the footage suggests that the boy needed to be shot around 10 times. Why did they even bother chasing him. 100% over-reaction

 

It's logical. Your kid being a spaz is not a medical emergency. I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between a house on fire and a temper tantrum. You don't get to abuse our emergency services because your kid can't behave himself.

That's on you.

 

You don't think the cops' instructions to "pull your hands out" might be related to their reason for shooting? You might not be satisfied with that explanation, but it's certainly more than "nothing".

They chased him because there was a reasonable belief he might be a threat to others. The cops didn't want to deal with this. The female cop directly said that as long as he was alone in the house, she didn't think there was even a reason to make contact.

 

Mention of being under psychiatric care, constantly acting out, inconsolable, unhinged, uncontrollable, previous car theft and high speed car chase, threatening to shoot someone, previous shootout with Police, possibly armed.......If I took that call, I'd send armed officers on high alert too. Thirteen or thirty, crazy with a gun makes them the same. Say, has anybody seen Lawyer Crump or Reverend Al about?

 

Here is some information on how Liden was suffering and how the police or whoever attended needed to act towards him in order to be of help.

https://neuroclastic.com/2020/09/19...ameron-for-having-a-meltdown-in-his-own-home/

The writer of that article goes into the poor training which this police department gives people before they go to 'help' people with autism/aspergers. Clearly they were doing the opposite of what would be helpful.

There has to be some serious changes made. It is beyond belief that people who were supposed to be a 'crises intervention team' able to deal with a child with autism clearly had no understanding at all and if they did not belong to the police would be looking at decades in Prison. They seem to put very little value on people's right to life.

 

I do all three, these guys weren't incompetent or trigger happy, we now know a lot more about this case from the footage and that the mother had told police he was possibly armed with a gun, it changes the whole dynamic.

 

If they weren't police they wouldn't have been summoned to this call. There is NO ONE ELSE available.

 

Because the mother told them he had a gun and he seemed to reach for it.

 

I do not, "seek to disregard your experience;" I only asked why you would disregard: 1st, my view-- because I couldn't know what it was like to be a police officer-- then, after I'd pointed out that you couldn't know the experience of being homeless but you gave yourself a pass because you'd, "dealt," w/ so many of them, & I asked why wouldn't the experience of black people who'd had to, "deal," with the police's presence make their opinions valid, you also (2ndly) came up w/ a supposed reason to disregard them-- since they were, "hypocritical," for not, "address[ing] the issue of violent crime within their community(which I kinda thought was the job of the police, but no matter)." Well if HYPOCRISY is a reason to, "not take (someone's) view seriously," I could say that YOU'VE just pronounced the judgement of, "disregardable," on your own opinion.

But that was not my hope in having this conversation. I had wished that you might take note of

the coincidence that you don't take the opinions of black people -- in total!-- seriously and the allegations that blacks are often not treated equally by police,

added to the coincidence that you have a poor opinion of homeless people, in general, & that police often don't treat homeless people as well as others

and perhaps at least be curious if there could be a connection. That, by the way, had been the whole point if my initial post in this thread (#233) which occasioned your reply & our discussion. And never w/in it did I ever imply that I don't, "have empathy with the police's view;" in fact, to the contrary. But empathy is not a zero-sum emotion; we do not have to lose empathy for some people in order to have it for others.

 

Look at all the narratives from African Americans that proved false, Michael Brown, Akai Gurley, look at all the baloney over Breonna Taylor, do you blame me? The reality is homeless people are incredibly dangerous, unpredictable, mentally ill and officers hate having to deal with them. But there is no one else. I have great empathy with the police, I have sympathy with the homeless and mentally ill but that with the police overrides it because the police are always right, they have to do their duty and this must take precedent over the views of others.