Same sex marriage

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by WAN, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Circular reasoning. We need a method of determining "Whether or not they are married" for the purposes of determining if they qualify for any given legal benefit. Are you asserting that the simple claim of marriage is enough?
     
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  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    There wouldn't be any involvement if you didn't need a license.
     
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Ask them if they are married.
     
  4. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Then what would be the point of legal marital benefits? You might as well just give them to everyone and not even bother asking.

    But here's the test. A man is admitted to the ER unconscious. The doctor needs a decision made. There are two women there each claiming to be his wife, and wanting the doctor to do different things. How do we tell who gets to make the decision?
     
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  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I'm okay with that
    How would they know anyway?
     
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  6. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Documents can be presented. In the event that the false wife is given precedent, and a problem occurs, the documentation can be used towards wrongful death or what ever happened. Are you telling me that you'd be alright with someone coming in and overriding your decision on your spouse by claiming they are the spouse?
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    is it common for people to run to the emergency room with documentation like that? It seems like your scenario is unrealistic

    If my partner was taken to the emergency room I probably wouldn't have search documents with me they're typically kept in a safety deposit box. Who else would run in there saying they were his spouse?
     
  8. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    An ex that is holding a grudge, or isn't accepting that they are no longer married.

    But from the sound of things you want there to be legal benefits but you want to be able to claim a spouse at whim for these legal benefits? So you could claim one guy this month as your husband, and then next month someone else is?

    And what about things like alimony? How can one person show that they are entitled to such, or another prove that they aren't entitled to it. And at this point, we are debating the necessity or lack thereof of needing documentation for legal benefits, not what legal benefits should or should not exist. So for the purposes of this thread, benefit currently on the books are fair game. Just to head off any possible we shouldn't have that benefit argument.
     
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  9. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    They can do that now
    They can do that now.
    Abolish alimony out right at this moment even if we don't get rid of marriage licenses.

    We're not debating documenting it we never have been we're debating licensing it.
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was trying to point out. The discussion on what we do to ensure proper recognition of legal benefits has nothing to do with what benefits there are. So in this discussion alimony remains on the table because it is a current benefit. If we were discussing what benefits we should have or not have, then how we determine who meets the qualifications is irrelevant. So once again, how do we determine who qualifies for alimony? Your whole argument to this point was that we could keep the current benefits without needing licenses.

    That is the documentation. In some states you don't get a marriage license, but a marriage certificate. It's all the same thing and for the same purposes.
     
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  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry I can't support alimony
     
  12. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  13. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Where was your reply to his second reply section?
     
  14. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    This isn't about what you support or not. You've made a claim about being able to have all the current legal benefits of marriage without the "permission", as you called it, which is done through the marriage license or certificate or whatever a state calls it. In order to support that assertion you have to show how the current benefits can be applied as they currently are without that paper/documentation by the government. Alimony is a current benefit. Whether or not it should be is a separate thread. Let's get back to your actual assertion that the current benefits can still be administered without the documentation via the license/certificate. We're on alimony.
     
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  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I didn't
     
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    you asked me about alimony. The only opinion I have is to abolish.
     
  17. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    but why doesn’t that thought apply to gay marriage also?

    and, fwiw, there are many common knowledge preconceptions that we have left behind
    I am sure that the institution of slavery must have been founded on a whole raft of “common knowledge”

    It used to be common knowledge that parents could discipline their children (or their wives) in what ever way they felt appropriate

    it used to be common knowledge that women were not well suited to make important decisions

    it used to be common knowledge that people could dump anything they wanted onto the air or water

    It used to be common knowledge that fishermen could catch an unlimited amount of any kind of fish where ever and whenever they wanted to

    it used to be common knowledge that being drunk was cute

    I am sure there are many more examples of discarded common knowledge

    so my question to you is
    Given that we have re evaluated so many other ideas from common knowledge
    Why is it that you think that marriage should be immune to similar re evaluation?
     
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  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Which was quite telling! He said, "that is the documentation. In some states you don't get a marriage license, but a marriage certificate. It's all the same thing and for the same purposes." Didn't you have any response to that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No I didn't even read it I didn't care. This discussion has become tedious.
     
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.
     
  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Did that make sense to you when you typed it?
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, why?
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Because it's ridiculous I don't know what my opinion is? I've explained it from 9 different angles you don't know what it is, are you being purposefully obtuse because you don't agree which I think is the more likely scenario
     
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well when you were told that marriage licenses and marriage certificates are the same thing and for the same purposes, you didn't dispute that. Why not?
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't dispute stupidity it's a waste of time.
     

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