Schappelle

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by truthvigilante, May 28, 2017.

  1. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    The cash made from dealing in death and misery is a serious temptation but I'm sure some would be put off because they know they'll die if nabbed.
    There are always idiots in this world as Corby the idiot has proven nicely, but they never re-offend once they're culled.
    I would prefer it deters but that's a bonus as it takes out the trash regardless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is that the death penalty is final

    No appeal

    No overturning of conviction
     
  3. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    That is an interesting one, could it be that the stringent Singaporean culture has anything to do with it?
    I often wondered why some countries have less problems, while others have more. That is independent of penalties....
    Cheers
     
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  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    A lot of it is cultural and some is simply that the problems are not as evident in some cultures. Added to this is the preferrence for TYPE of drug. Thanks to Big Pharma there is a huge issue with middle class people here and in America hooked on opiates
     
  5. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    That's the idea .. very final.
     
  6. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    Don't know about Sing but Indonesia has a tiny drug problem except in a few smaller areas including Bali.
    That means the general level of crime is far lower than in countries infested by drug dealers.
     
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  7. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

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    She did the crime, now she has done her time, so let us all move on. Any further attention paid is just adding fuel to her attention seeking fire.

    A lot more important things going on right now than talking about old news.
     
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  8. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ. A great many people convinced themselves for a good long time that she was innocent. I can remember listening to talk back radio during the trial and there was barely a voice raised against her. The Indonesian justice system was corrupt; the trial was unfair (I mean, some of these people barely speak English!); the judges were referred to as 'monkeys'; Australians would never smuggle weed into Bali; and Scapelle was a pretty white girl with big, tear filled eyes and a big rack. Polling at the time showed that a majority or plurality of Australians thought she was innocent.

    I was in the 'probably guilty' camp. That suspicion was confirmed by some conversations with an acquaintance in the Qld police force who said, well before it came out publicly, that the family was well known to police for their drug associations.

    It was only after the initial guilty verdict that public opinion moved decisively against her. That was the result of a number of revelations about connections she & her family had to drug dealing & the admission by her defense counsel that the theory about baggage handlers putting the weed in her bag was a complete fabrication. There was sort of a collective realization that everyone had been fooled and sympathy - even from people who felt she was guilty but deserved a lighter sentence - pretty much dried up.

    If you want an interesting comparison, look at the attitude toward Van Nguyen, who was executed in Singapore a few months after Corby was sentenced in Bali. He was a cleanskin doing his first drug run to pay off a large debt owed by his twin brother to drug smugglers in Australia. I'll leave it to your imagination the fate that awaited his brother if the debt was not paid. There was very, very little public sympathy for him and his fate. Its hard to believe that some ingrained racial attitudes were not involved here.
     
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  9. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes that is confronting. He was smuggling heroin and I think that there is more stigma attached to it than cannabis.
     
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  10. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. I wouldn't have expected anyone to go into bat for his release, as so many did with Corby. He deserved a lengthy sentence. The stark comparison to me was the outcry over her custodial sentence vs the indifference to his execution.
     
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  11. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    As far as my memory serves me right he wasn't true blue, to start with. Still makes a difference to many people, unfortunately....
    Leave the rest for others....
    Cheers
     
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  12. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Control and fear isn't correct approach in long run either.
     
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  13. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    It's an excellent approach when dealing with scum dealers.
    I would like them to be so scared at the airports you can find them by tracing the smells from their underwear.
     
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  14. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It'll get there somehow. Crook police maybe? The big guys will use little guys....especially desperate ones!

    The only way to deal with the drugs issue in my mind based on certain evidence is by decriminalising it's usage and allowing a certain amount in individual possession. Crime on all streets mostly seems to be associated with drug distribution. Create legitimate employment I say.
    No, this isn't my idea, but introduced into law in Portugal in early 2000's. It just makes sense, and creates a sense of freedom!
     
  15. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    That assumes drug puddled idiots are reasonable people but they aren't.
    The very fact they use drugs means they're a set of idiots and idiots do stupid things.
    Let's be direct - Junkies are mindless morns who have no hope of a job so they'll still steal in order to fund their addiction.

    Users are weak minded fools so I would tend to be lenient towards them, forcing them into rehab where they would go cold turkey.
    They could have three attempts at that before mandatory execution on the fourth conviction.

    All dealers, regardless of drug type or quantity should face mandatory execution upon first conviction. The Corby execution would have caused a few diplomatic ripples for a few weeks and some well meaning but stupid civil rights lot would have bleated a bit but the Australian public would soon realise their society is better off without her.
    What's betting the daft bitch gets arrested for drugs offences in Oz within a year or two?

    I wouldn't go quite as far as Duterte but he's on the right track.
     
  16. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think decriminalising drugs is a sensible idea, and then treating drug addiction as a medical problem. Removing the financial incentive is the major hurdle. Convincing most of the government to do this is another big step, owing to the hard righties in our government.
     
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  17. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    That only works in a society that has become so used to drugs they don't see an alternative.
    Ask this, why were drugs made illegal in the first place?

    Back to societies - Indonesia is very different in mindset from western countries so the whole thought of legalising such things just isn't considered. The vast majority of Indonesians have no idea where to buy drugs, will never know a dealer, never see an abuser and consider illegal drugs to be something for fools.
    I have met one dealer who I told to sod off before I called the cops (I should have just called them), and I assisted in the arrest of weed dealers by pretending to be a tourist and taking photos of the street, but that was really just to get photos of the target house and family.
    They got 6 years and I have no regret about helping the cops.

    I have two kids and would prefer they grow up in a place totally free of the scum we know as dealers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
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  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Really? I can't remember (personally) a single individual who thought she was innocent.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's probably why I didn't come across anyone who thought she was innocent. I don't mix with racists.
     
  20. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    How many years has the war on drugs been going? It doesn't work. The US is an example of how throwing money at a problem and criminalising it doesn't work.
    China, I believe has a sizeable drug problem.
    The major drugs of choice are injectable heroin, morphine, smokeable opium, crystal methamphetamine, nimetazepam, temazepam, and MDMA. ... China considers crystal methamphetamine abuse second to heroin/morphine as a major drug problem. The use of MDMA has only recently become popular in China's growing urban areas.
    Illegal drug trade in China - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Illegal_...
    Indonesia’s drug obsession is only making things worse
    Certainly a problem, though many dispute the Government’s figures of 4 million addicts nationwide, with 30 dying each day. Just not the biggest one. http://globalcomment.com/indonesias-drug-obsession-is-only-making-things-worse/
    Indonesias population is 263 million, so that 1.2 million drug users is a small percentage of the population, but still significant. Tough stance on drugs plays a part in keeping the problem small.

    Finding a drug deal as simple as making eye contact in Indonesia's touristhotspots.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-24/are-drugs-still-rife-on-the-streets-of-bali/8553246

    How Many Drug Users are there in Indonesia?
    Marijuana, methamphetamine, ecstasy and heroin are the most popular illegal substances that are used by Indonesia's 1.2 million drug abusers. In the mid-1990s heroin was a popular drug. However, due to a shortage of supply, fewer Indonesians are consuming heroin today compared to two decades ago. This is partly the result of Indonesia's tough stance on drug abuse. Those who are caught carrying drugs can face the death penalty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  21. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Then you are either a VERY boring person, have a selective memory or you have an odd an inconsistent definition of 'racism'. It would also be a mistake to assume that just because someone thought she was innocent they were a 'racist'. The world is a much more complex place than that. I'm also not sure how living in this racist free zone allowed you to filter out media coverage of one of the biggest stories of that year.

    Anyway, we all interact with the world differently. Good luck to you.
     
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  22. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    The US is so full of addicts it's too late for you lot.
    Indonesia needs a semi Duterte attitude, all the killing but with a trial for those who don't resist arrest.
    The messing about delaying executions has emboldened the scum dealers into thinking they can get off but the don't mess with Duterte because he's shown the dealers what's going to happen if they don't bugger off.
    I believe President Jokowi needs to make a stand by executing all on death row soonest and changing the law to restrict the time available for appeals so the next lot can be dispatched to hell quicker.
    There is the final appeal to the president but it can be made clear that's a waste of time.

    The war on drugs doesn't work because it's too nice. Death penalties carried out as quickly as possible for ALL dealers works.
     
  23. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    Hang on - Tourist hotspots?

    That goes to prove what I said - Indonesians dislike drugs but the tourist areas are corrupted by foreign dealers and foreign abusers.
    Corby should have been executed, as should all of the Bali nine and all the other scumbag dealers.

    Kill every one of them and the problem will go away.

    As a note, a dealer found by the public in most of this country would probably suffer a serious beating, maybe even killed and the Jakarta area cops know how to deal with them.

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/04/26/nigerian-man-shot-dead-in-drugs-bust.html

    The BNN's chief cop has the right idea. Go for it, Bapak Budi, you have my support and that of most Indonesians.

    https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/na...aseso-says-hes-ready-shoot-drug-dealers-dead/

    The next one in front of the firing squad should be Lindsay Sandiford so the Brit press can moan on about her for a while - That way the Brit dealers will know what awaits them if they bring drugs here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  24. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm,
    that's a bit too much of black and white, you forgot the 100 shades of grey....

    People take drugs for all kind of reasons, and most often it is a stupid thing to do.

    But just imagine, your son/daughter, who grew up well protected and well looked after, do turn to grass and do enjoy a joint every now and then.
    And hey, maybe your daughter doesn't turn out to be as straight as you want her to be, is she stupid or less valuable because of that?

    Would you write them off? As human beings we sometimes do silly/stupid things, but that doesn't make us to criminals or else.
    As I am in the autumn of my life I have seen a lot, some great kids lost to drugs, but others very neglected ones used drugs to escape, until they finally found their way.
    And I wouldn't want to miss knowing them....

    Have a great day, and please show some human kindness,
    cheers
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  25. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Duterte is an idiot and who knows how many revenge killings have been done in the name of his drug war.
    "
    Lascanas joined the Davao police when he was 21. Eight years later, he says, he became one of the youngest members of the DDS. He is the kind of person who remembers details – when asked how long he has been a policeman he answered precisely: “For 34 years and eight months.”
    He tells of one particular incident that has given him nightmares for years: in 1996 Lascanas and his team were ordered to kill an alleged criminal, his pregnant wife and his four-year-old son, who were all in the same vehicle at the time. “I attempted to rescue the four-year-old boy,” claims Lascanas, grimacing. “But according to our team leader since the boy ... had seen our faces, he could recognise us in years from now and identify us.”
    That is horrific. That is no way to deal with a drug problem.
     

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