Scotland goes off the deep end

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Eleuthera, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    related thread here: Scottish Hate Crime Bill Would Criminalize Offensive Dinner Table Conversations

    This may seem like total insanity to many people and they might just assume this could never pass, but people should not underestimate the strength of the push behind these proposals. There is indeed a very real chance something like this could pass.
    And each new law like this will set a precedent for yet another law like it, but even worse, more taking away of freedoms.
     
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  3. Mrs. b.

    Mrs. b. Well-Known Member Donor

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    This may sound paranoid or silly to some, but stuff like this is why we don’t have Alexa or Echo.
     
  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not silly at all. I have neither. I talk to myself enough. :angel: I'm not about to start talking to a box.

    I know a case from about 5 years ago, in which an older couple in their 80s were house sitting their son's house for a few days. They did not know anything about Alexa.

    They were home alone and a knock on the door came. A deputy sheriff enquiring about " a disturbance " in the house. They said no, it's just us and we're fine. They were perplexed.

    About an hour or so later another knock on the door, a second deputy for the same reason, a disturbance was reported. This deputy was much nicer and informed them that the call to the police had come from the Alexa unit. They all had a good laugh, but were then informed about the insidious Big Brother nature of Alexa.
     
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  5. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ They should have called Alexa ' The Butler'. Sounds less Big Brother-ish . :bucktooth:
     
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  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    maybe...but not at a Celtic Rangers derby....feinan bastards versus orange kunts.....aye some things never change.....:D
     
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  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your source

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/summit-news/
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did take the time to read from source about the bill. Seems it is mainly about adding age to list of people who you can have a hate crime if you attack. Smash someone's face in and grab their money while shouting at them 'You ****ing boomer. You have ruined the world for all of us and taken all the money. It is payback time!' and when you go to court you will find that not only will you sentenced on bodily harm and theft but also for a hate crime so extra time for that. Do the same without mentioning that they are old and you will not get the hate crime bit.

    About hitting children. In the ten years I have been back in Scotland I have never once seen anyone other than another child hitting a child. I did not know it was now illegal in Scotland but I did know the intent was there. It was a Scottish family who chose to support the Stop Corporal Punishment in the UK Organisation and went to the EU to get this stopped. There really is no reason to hit children. We still need more work on emotional abuse but that is another thing. To the best of my information most of the Nordic Countries have had hitting children as a crime for several decades.

    Yes, I thought of Alexa as well because that is pretty much the only way I can think that anyone would know what people were saying in their homes and this does not come from Scotland's Gov intent. There is zero in the bill about getting people to grass on what is going on in the home. This came from the people doing the criticism. If I think of who would be telling anything well I guess there is rape and if people have a problem with that, the problem is with them and with kids it would be both violence and also improper sexual attention all the way to incerst. Of course one would want a child to have someone to go to for help with this. Unfortuantely too often children put up with far more than than they should, their bond for their parents is so strong.

    Then there was the thing about teachers not telling the parents if they thought kids may have the wrong gender orientation. Look teachers are not going to start organising sex changes for the children in their care and they would be in big trouble if they did. Another way to look at this is that if teachers feel the need to tell parents about opposite gender orientation - then clearly the parents will think their child is not accepted and may feel obliged to make the child change his/her behaviour, make the child feel bad about themselves so I am not surprised that far right people want teachers telling parents if they think their kids are acting in a gender inappropriate way but unless the teacher sees a genuine problem I do not see what good would come of that. For God sakes Parents should be aware of their kids gender orientation. They should not need a teacher to tell them.

    Apparently the majority of the people of Scotland want Scotland to be a place which is inclusive of people regardless of things like their sexual orientation, religion, race and so on. We live in a time where much of the West is moving towards the far right. Most people here do not want that. If you are thinking you are going to loose out on your right to hurt somone because of your prejudices just do not come to a country where any far right who come here trying to have a protest always find the opposition protest about ten times bigger.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
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  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A questionable source means we should view the article with possible suspicion, not that we should completely disregard the story.

    It's highly doubtful they would just completely make up something like that. Even if it was a very biased perspective or a huge distortion of the truth, there would still likely be some truth or substance behind it.

    We've already seen the UK do crazy things kind of like this.
    Man investigated by police for retweeting transgender limerick
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A hard right site that is mainly conspiracy. It is always interesting to see where people get their information from.
     
  11. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ....your source....:)

    The Times 28th October 2020
     
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  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    It may surprise you given my political allegiance but I agree with you!
     
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  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah it's funny we get Americans on the board here saying that my state of Victoria, Australia has become a socialist police state and then you'll see the tweet they based it on and it's like one dude riding a bike. Complete fantasy!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
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  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Scot Gov's website - literature about the bill.

    Are you aware that when that anti Muslim Group - can't remember name but began with P tried to get a march going in Scotland - widely advertised and all the rest - they got 4 marchers!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ....and would you suggest that this is an independent source free and clear of bias or political leaning.....hmmmm?
     
  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would imagine they had had some research done. They said that 2/3rds were of that mind. I thought that was a bit low tbh. Things have possibly changed since you were living here. I think in particular Glasgow Catholics have done an enormous amount to make sure Muslims are not treated as in England - given that they know from first hand experience what prejudice feels like. I know you mentioned Glasgow football matches. There was something to try and stop that as well - saying they could not sing usual songs which a lot of people complained about. I am not sure how that ended but obviously Rangers were out of things for some years. Also during the Independence Campaign some Rangers fans moved and started flying Saltire Flags. On the Downside after the Referendum, the Scottish Tories started employing Orange men to fight for party jobs and islamophobes from England. That would appear to be all they have to offer the country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I practice "buyer beware" with everything I read or hear.

    I agree with your post.
     
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  18. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Spot on. Complete fantasy to normal people (you know, those folks who have heard of weird concepts like critical thinking, reason, common sense, reliable sources, etc.), but perfect logic to (conservative) 'mericans. Can only shake one's head in disbelief over and over again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you specifically claiming that the new proposed Scottish law (which has a high chance of being passed) could not be easily interpreted to criminalize conversations at the dinner table?

    What I mean is, are your comments here referring to this specific topic, or are your comments talking about more in general?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've noticed a pattern in the past. One side will deny, deny, deny. And then, once what they want actually becomes law and gets put in place, that side will simply switch to "So what?"

    The problem is, those claiming things like this are fantasy and could never happen never take any responsibility for their claims.
    And neither is it really possible to prove when they speak that they speak for most of those on their side.

    How many other things looming over the horizon were claimed that they could never happen, or was just a bunch of ridiculous fear-mongering, yet only a few decades later have become almost totally normalized?

    I think those claiming such like this is pure fantasy are just making a casual attempt to disarm the opposition. And secretly, inside, they are hoping it passes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  21. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Victoria IS a socialist police state... I live there too
     
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  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you want to huddle in groups outside without a mask it could be ...
     
  23. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've seen police harass old people walking through the park on their own, drag women out of their cars horizontally, smashing car windows, strangling a woman... but go on.... keep thinking denial is a river in Africa
     
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  24. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    I think that should be very clear from the context - my comment and the comment I replied to.
     
  25. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    that's a fair point.
    I still don't like the direction of travel though and would be more than surprised at no inherent bias in "government" statistics. The very fact that this level of intrusiveness is being actively contemplated by a Scottish government is sad.
     

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