Scots Begin Struggle For Independence:

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by janpor, Jan 26, 2012.

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  1. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Where have I ever assumed or said you are an English person who has left England?

    Which part of the UK do you live in now then?
     
  2. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the link you quoted..the one that started with

    Party bosses are looking to the stars to persuade voters to sweep them into No10.

    Senior Labour and Tory figures privately admit celebrity endorsement is now a critical part of their General Election campaigns.

    They hope that by getting big names to back their party, fans will do exactly the same. Today, with polling just weeks away, The People looks at whether a new wave of Cool Britannia is set to sweep the country - and reveals who our biggest stars are backing.


    It was simply an illustration of the fact that fredc condemns the SNP for doing exactly the same as every other political party does all the time.

    After all, the link that got fredc into the celebrity stuff and talk about nationalist manipulation was actually talking mainly about endorsements for the SNP at the last Scottish elections....the only mention of Independence was in the headline, (and as we get nearer 2014 everything about Scotland in the media, appropriate or not, will be tagged with independence)....plus a couple of comments, one describing the stance of long term nationalists, like the one who died later and left the party a million quid to help in the referendum....and one saying One by one, stars crashed down on the side of independence – or at least, of Alex Salmond.

    The pro-Independence celebrity recruitment drive won't get started until nearer the time..as will the anti-Independence equivalent.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's an excellent bunch of articles Oddquine. If people want to know what it is all about that's a good place to start.
     
  4. highlander

    highlander Banned

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    Aah...Mr Raymondo...we have been taught to be civil to those less well endowed with certain intellectual abilities.....we are taught to be civil and not to mock the afflicted.

    My commiserations to you and though you ..... your nation.

    Enjoy the diffidence to your aspirations for your nation we think you deserve better than slavery...but have it your own way!

    Regards
    Highlander
     
  5. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Just as well that the Scottish Parliament has the last word on this one!

    independence-referendum-david-cameron-set-to-force-through-earlier-vote

    Funny how Unionist papers don't quite get the concept of devolution in thinking that Cameron can force through anything that needs a majority in a Scottish Parliament with a Unionist minority.

    Wonder if the ability to vote to accept or reject certain bills Westminster passes on to us is one of the many "rights" they will be clawing back in the Scotland bill, along with Antartica.
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think this is just a bit of words. It says he wants the vote within 18 months of the Scotland Bill being passed. From what I have heard it is unlikely to be accepted by the Scottish Parliament any day soon. Possibly in a year or so allowing for a referendum in Autumn 2014 ;)
     
  7. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    This should be fun.....scottish_independence_three_msps_back_devo_plus_campaign

    From what I can see, not a great deal better than the Scotland Bill on its way through Westminster at the moment. Have to go some to pass something decent before the independence vote though.....what is proposed won't cut it...and if nothing is in place before 2014 only the utter numpties of Scotland can be looking for it to be in place after they vote no! That's not how things work in the UK.

    This, however is not so much fun (as a non-EU supporter) Spit! But it will (maybe) shut up those who go on about an Independent Scotland being chucked out of the EU as a scare story. And scotches the Unionist belief that the UK is a single state under the control of England into the bargain.

    indy-eu-boost-as-commission-says-scotland-and-rest-of-uk-already-two-equal-parties
     
  8. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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  9. Chookie

    Chookie New Member

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    And exactly what legal advice would that be? If it wasn't based on Scots Law it's worthless with regard to the referendum.

    But then.......

    ETA: European law seems to be of the same opinion.
     
  10. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    It only needs to be based on EU law.

    Depends on the opinion, doesn't it?

    Don't you want to know exactly the advice Salmond was given considering you now know the EU won't commit to Scotland's membership?
     
  11. Chookie

    Chookie New Member

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    No. It's based on Scots Law, the fact that European laws seem to agree is a bonus.
    Not really, it depends on which lawyer you buy.
     
  12. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Agree on what, exactly?

    No, it depends on the opinion.

    Did you actually read any of the links?
     
  13. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Have to say I like the idea of EFTA much more than the EU anyway, so I'm not going to be crying in my beer if the Unionists are, for once, right. :mrgreen:
     
  14. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Desperation or what! "Scottish" Labour have taken it upon themselves to tell their supporters what they think....and hope they are too thick to read the small print.

    They have a form on the Scottish Labour site which lets you email the UK Government consultation (though what they have to consult about I'm buggered if I know, as a consultative Scottish Referendum is within the Scottish Government's allowed sphere of influence) ) and the SNP Government Consultation (which has already said a lot more than once that the referendum will take place in 2014)

    The pro-forma email is entitled

    My views about the referendum and the text follows.......

    The referendum on Scotland’s constitutional future is hugely important, and I want to have my say on how the referendum is run. I want it to be legal, fair, and decisive.

    Legal
    I do not want the referendum to be subject to legal challenge or dragged through the courts. Clarity on which parliament has the legal responsibility to call the referendum must be sorted out.

    Fair
    I want the referendum to be supervised by the Electoral Commission, and I am opposed to any attempt to water down their role. They must have the legal power to rule on the wording of the question.

    Decisive
    There should only be one question in order to give a definitive answer on whether or not Scotland remains part of the UK. I do not support attempts to muddy the water with further questions on other matters. I want the referendum sooner rather than later and do not see the need to wait almost three years.

    Please take my views into account.


    Is that not an attempt to con the unwitting into the Unionist camp and an immoral, underhand.......or even illegal method of manipulation?

    Now, given that in the last SNP government, the SNP intended to have a referendum....and if the Unionist parties had not made it clear ahead of time that they would not support it for it to get through the Scottish Parliament, all this would have been done and dusted by now....and there would likely have been a No vote into the bargain..because Thatcher in trousers hadn't turned up by that stage!

    Seems to me that it is less than honest and moral to turn round now and say "We say it should be soon"....when they had the chance to have it a lot sooner and they bottled it!

    Anybody else get the impression Scottish Labour is in headless chicken mode?
     
  15. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    The points made look logical and reasonable and are in fact points I have made previously on these forums.

    Why does the SNP want to avoid a fair and honest referendum? Do they think that deliberately delaying the vote till they have a better chance and using weasel words on the ballot form is the only way they can win?

    Labour MPs are the people's elected representatives at the Scottish Parliament, they should be allowed to represent their constituents and have their say in how the referendum is run, your attempts to exclude them is not very democratic but then neither is the SNP's proposed referendum.
     
  16. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Struggle isn't the word for what we are going to have to do until the referendum......particularly when the "impartial" Beeb is dancing to the unionist tune......and misrepresenting interviews in print.

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4553-its-more-than-headlines-that-have-to-change-at-bbc-scotland

    The banking collapse has been a fundamental plank of the Unionist attack on an independent Scotland. Given the importance of this issue to the referendum debate it is vitally important that comments and arguments are reported accurately.

    BBC Scotland didn’t do this. Instead they set about manufacturing an article that was so at odds with the meaning of the comments it purported to be relating to an unsuspecting public, that one has to conclude that it was deliberate.


    Any news site can make errors. Newsnet Scotland has done so in its time - and has apologised for its error. However, any organisation which distorts the comments of a Minister to such an extent and, in response to protests, simply alters its text days later without any apology is not worthy of its reputation as a balanced source of news.
     
  17. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    Yet on the page you referenced is a picture of Salmond with the same weasel words he wants to put on the ballot paper and you see nothing wrong with it.
     
  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can only imagine it is ignorance. But ignorance based on prejudice. Even though she explains the situation as you yourself have in this thread, Brian Taylor is unable to hear what she says and the BBC does not even try. It's difficult to tell. A mixture of ignorance and bias but I guess the bias is the strongest. Anyone with any intelligence would have long heard the argument and realised that this is a false accusation ...but the hope will be some viewers will just be trusting the BBC which unfortunately they probably will. Fascinating that they also try to cover their tracks.
     
  19. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    Shouldn't this be in the Conspiracy section?

    What do you mean by cover their tracks? Take a look at the Yahoo cach of the page from the 10th.

    http://74.6.238.254/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=bbc+sturgeon+rbs&fr=sfp&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=bbc+sturgeon+rbs&d=27025778038998185&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=1d77c884,1d84bdb0&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=CA_i6PGRvbmJ_7eLDL_rjg--

    See, it had already been changed, so why are the Nationalists claiming it wasn't changed till the 12th?

    Personally I think the BBC got it right first time.
     
  20. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Obviously didn't read the link.......or you wouldn't have needed to ask your questions.or make your remarks, fredc.....but hey......what's new.why change the habits of your lifetime?

    Quote from the article......

    But it didn’t stop there, for eagle eyed observers will notice a peculiarity on the amended version of the article – the date/time stamp. Look closely and you will see that BBC Scotland have given as the latest update to the article the afternoon of the interview - 10th March.

    The BBC use the 24 hour clock, so anyone looking at this item will be forgiven for thinking that BBC Scotland corrected their online news story within hours of the 09:30 interview.

    In fact the actual date/time of correction was two days later on Monday 12th March at around 21:00. News media monitoring site NewsSniffer logs the change at 21:10 – although this may be an estimate.

    So, not content with passing off misrepresentation as factual news, BBC Scotland have tried to cover their tracks by showing a wholly inaccurate date/time for the last update.


    Given it is one of your favourite ignorant and trolling pet hobby horses.....why would be surprised you say Personally I think the BBC got it right first time :rolleyes:

    http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/502346/diff/0/1
     
  21. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    Yet I post a link to a copy of the page cached by Yahoo on the 10th with the changes already made. The accusations being made against the BBC are false.

    And an independent Scotland obviously would have relied on the rest of the UK to bail them out and I feel the SNP are working now on the principle that it doesn't matter if they screw up in the future because the rest of the UK will have no alternative but to bail them out.

    It is also looking to me like the Nationalists are going to use the Zionist methods of crying bias and prejudice at any slight criticism of them while themselves using every sneaky little trick and deception to deceive the voter they can.
     
  22. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Funny that, then. There's a post on one forum I know about, a post which was written at 3.41pm on 11th March 2012......which directly quotes the article...the original article and provides a link..which now, of course, links to the updated version.

    And believe me.....the forum is not a Scottish site, a Nationalist site or a pro-Independence one..in fact it is more of a Unionist capitalist one, if anything. Kinda looks as if they confirm the newsnetscotland article, at least much more as to timing and correction.......does it not?

    Using every sneaky little trick and deception to deceive the voter they can resulting in pro-Independence supporters pointing out bias and prejudice, which can then be used to sneer at us.....epitomises the tactics of you and people like you, fredc. Nasty, nasty buggers, the lot of you!

    I'm still waiting for some cogent reason as to why we would want to stay in the Union....so far, nobody has come up with even one benefit for Scotland in the Union which we could not achieve outside it for ourselves.

    Mind you, when all Unionists can do is misrepresent, lie and insult, it does rather show that the Union benefits more those who are desperate to hang onto it, than those who wish to bow out of it...which kinda proves that rUK needs Scotland more than Scotland needs rUK....otherwise you would all be able to produce more than bluster, crap and scaremongering to convince us that we are wrong.....would you not?
     
  23. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    I'll go with the Yahoo cache, it states it plain and clear.

    Here's another reason against independence for you, Salmond is a lying cheating scumbag like I've been saying all along.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9147368/Revealed-Alex-Salmonds-plan-to-hide-tax-increase.html
     
  24. highlander

    highlander Banned

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    Bloody hell...you want it all ways.....We are your charity case....we're your chain around your neck and now we're supposed to want you to bail us out!

    Please get it through your, no doubt armoured skull....we want what you have...independance through the will of our nation....territorial integrity and our sovereignty....nothing more and we're having nothing less!

    So take your thieving aristocracy and you pay for there adventures in foreign fields and let your nation wrap that union flag your so proud around your necks...we want nothing more of it!
    Deception......sneaky....slight critism....thats all your politicians BBC and media dogma!
    We on the other hand......show nothing but distain for your effeminate wiles....we will have democratic change....and there is nothing you can do about it....but you can always go back to your England....and make some attempt to sort out the social mess, political strife, thatchers capitalist dream...our nightmare!
    No misunderstanding from my part anyways!

    You deserve nothing less my friend...you don't deserve to live in a free Scottish nation...aye you go back to those things you think you deserve.....slavery poverty and no likelyhood of anything changing!

    But you remember which side your bread is buttered.....We're allow you back...just so we could say to our children....thats a tory....now children...don't mock the afflicted!



    Regards
    Highlander
     
  25. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Face facts Viv. When you say "we want" you're not speaking for the majority of Scots. Maybe you will in the future, maybe even in the very near future, who knows, but for now you don't.
     
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