Sen. McSally, ex-Air Force pilot, says officer raped her

I do. What's the question

 

In the Navy and Marine Corps they don't have pilots but naval aviators.

Air Force pilots wear wings of lead.
Naval and Marine aviators wear wings of gold

Now the Army and Navy do have sky pilots who are suppose to be able to fly reaching the sky without having an airplane or even a helicopter.

Very popular song during the Vietnam War.



He blesses the boys as they stand in line
The smell of gun grease and the bayonets they shine
He's there to help them all that he can
To make them feel wanted he's a good holy man
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You'll never, never, never reach the sky

He smiles at the young soldiers
Tells them its all right
He knows of their fear in the forthcoming fight
Soon there'll be blood and many will die
Mothers and fathers back home they will cry
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You'll never, never, never reach the sky

He mumbles a prayer and it ends with a smile
The order is given
They move down the line
But he's still behind and he'll meditate
But it won't stop the bleeding or ease the hate
As the young men move out into the battle zone
He feels good, with God you're never alone
He feels tired and he lays on his bed
Hopes the men will find courage in the words that he said
Sky pilot... sky Pilot
How high can you fly
You'll never, never, never reach the sky

You're soldiers of God you must understand
The fate of your country is in your young hands
May God give you strength
Do your job real well
If it all was worth it
Only time it will tell
In the morning they return
With tears in their eyes
The stench of death drifts up to the skies
A soldier so ill looks at the sky pilot
Remembers the words
"Thou shalt not kill"
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You never, never, never reach the sky

 

Sure did; 20 years 11 days. USN Retired...

 

The question was posed to another poster.

The subject matter is coerced sexual relations between senior and junior officers, or officers and enlisted, in the military.

It would be good to have some input from you in that regard, if applicable. My time in the service was free of such things, though I can imagine how it might have been.

 

I'll pose the question to you a second time (the first was by ArmySoldier): What's your question?

What kind of input do you want?

The subject matter is actually one person's unfounded allegation of being assaulted. Yet, she's not said when or where, or by whom. Maybe she'll be like

Why would anyone believe her? Maybe she'll be like Christine Blasey Ford and bring forth witnesses who don't remember anything to support her allegations...

 

In my time in the Army I never experienced or witnessed any attempted sexual advances between superior and inferior officers, but I was male and did not do a career.

I've always been skeptical of having females in the military, mostly because of the potential for coerced sex between junior and senior personnel.

It's easy to see McSally as telling the truth.

 

I asked the question of you, and you answered honestly. I did not desire any input other than the truth.

Why would she be lying?

I'm one of those weirdos that believes a person until and unless I have reason not to believe that person.

McSally is credible in my book. The only people threatened are the perps and various authoritarians. I understand human nature, good looking women, the nature of authority and superior rank, the nature of conquest, and an erect penis and frat boys.

She is likely telling the truth.

 

All you're basing that on is an absolutely, 100% unsupported allegation.

That's not smart...

 

I have no idea, but I know there's exactly nothing which supports her allegations. Let's hear some names. Let's see some evidence. Something.

She's offered exactly nothing.

But there could be any number of reasons why she's. Maybe she just wants in on the "me too" movement that's become so popular among whining liberals. Maybe she wants sympathy. I have no idea. Maybe someone should ask her why she's lying...

And what reason is there to believe she's telling the truth?

Fine.

Who are they?

The need for evidence is proportional to the severity of the allegation. If she said she can't swim, I don't need to watch her drown to believe she doesn't know how to swim. But if she's talking about being raped while in uniform, she needs to back that up...

You don't understand anything. You only convince yourself you do.

My last your of duty in the Navy was at a training command in San Diego. I ran a division where students would be assigned while in between schools, or waiting to go meet their ships. There were both men and women assigned to my division; about a 70/30 split.

It was not uncommon at all for a woman to wind up pregnant after receiving orders to a ship that was deploying or already overseas. The Navy would not transfer a woman to a sea command if she was pregnant. Period. It was a sure fire way to avoid sea duty, and there wasn't a damn thing the Navy could do about it. The women in question; even some pretty ******n ugly ones, would have no problem finding some boot-sailor straight out of an Iowa cornfield to sleep with her.

Trying to paint the guys as the only "bad" participants here is silly...

As you've completely failed to support your assertion, I'll just go ahead and dismiss it...

 

You might be big Steve, and you are certainly naïve as to the ways of the world.

 

If you have some sort of evidence which would support her allegations, I'm all ears.

Using your special little brand of logic, if someone accuses you of selling drugs to kids, there's no reason to believe you don't. We don't need anything to support that allegation. It was alleged and, therefore, it must be true.

That's not naive, that's ignorant...

 

If you have some sort of evidence which would support the claims of the superior officer, I'm all ears.

 

What superior officer? What's his name? What claims did he make?

See, you're missing the point. She hasn't, and won't, name the individual who allegedly raped her. You're asking for evidence which supports claims that have never been made. That's stupid.

Aside from that, though, even if she did name someone, it would be incumbent upon her to prove the allegations, not on the superior officer to disprove them.

If she wants us to believe she was raped, she should start by naming her attacker. Otherwise there's no reasonable cause to believe her...

 

I have no trouble believing her, for all the reasons I've already listed.

 

Your "reason" is essentially that, because men and women are in the military, she must be telling the truth.

Then you ask for some evidence to support the "superior officer's claim".

What claim was that? You're dodging that question...

 

No, I believe her because my practice is that I assume that every person is telling the truth as best they know it UNTIL I have reason to believe they are not telling the truth.

For example, if a person or persons is/are known to have lied before, I am most skeptical of what they have to say. But until then, I believe them. I don't see why she is motivated to lie. I don't see what she has gained by telling a lie.

 

You're continuing to dodge the question.

You asked for evidence to support the superior officer's claim.

What claim was that?

 

That she has kept her claim anonymous as to the name of her rapist makes her even more credible.

Knowing she would never prevail in the male-dominated UCMJ, she merely made a truthful statement for others to hear.

 

That doesn't answer my question. Why are you continuing to avoid answering it?

Look, you and I both know you're afraid to answer it, because there is no answer.

You asked for evidence to back up the superior officer's claim, but the reality is that no claim by any superior officer was made, because no rape happened. There was no claim to be made.

By not naming the fantasy rapist, she avoids having to produce any supporting evidence. Going about it as she is, she can say whatever she wants and not be held accountable for it.

It's beyond ridiculous to believe such a person...

The "male-dominated UCMJ"?? Such a statement demonstrates that you don't even know what the UCMJ is...

 

I had assumed you were intelligent enough to know that a question to which there is no answer need not be "answered".

My earlier statement about the superior officer's statement was conditional on the fact that we knew who the superior officer was. Obviously we don't because she made her statement keeping the identity of that officer anonymous.

Thanks for the insight Perry Mason, but I was participating in the UCMJ when you were still wearing diapers, or before.

 

You said there was a claim made.

Now you're back peddling, and clumsily so, at that.

A question to which there is no answer is one thing: a stupid question, and those who ask them do so only because they are completely devoid of anything intelligent to say but still believe they need to try to make some sort of point...

No, we don't know who the superior officer was because no such attack took place. If it did, let's see some evidence. Otherwise it's a non-issue and a non-event...

You were "participating" in the UCMJ? How does one "participate" in the UCMJ?

It's become glaringly obvious that you've never spent a day in uniform...

 

Steve

Here is a cute story coming from my participation in the UCMJ as a young officer at Fort Carson in 1969.

By random selection, I had been appointed as defense counsel in an ordinary UCMJ proceeding. In the course of that action, I visited my guy several times in the post stockade. As I was leaving the stockade from one of those visits, I came face to face with Jane Fonda who was protesting just outside the stockade.

Your locked mind is typical of so many Americans. A man believes what he wants to believe, and disregards the rest.

Keep up the good work sailor. You will get another merit badge to pin on your chest before long.

 

The UCMJ isn't something you "participate" in. Every member of the uniform services is subject to it.

As for Fonda, she wasn't protesting outside the stockade. She was invited to visit the stockade by General Bernard Rogers. She was permitted to speak to any prisoner she wanted to. Later, Roger said he would welcome her back to Fort Carson, telling her she could take the stage at the post theater to speak with any soldiers who wanted to hear her.

Such openness was not at all what she expected to encounter and, clearly, it threw her off her game. She never accepted Rogers' offer.

See, if you were really there, you'd have known all of that.

This discussion would be more enjoyable if your stories were better, although I suppose you could always have a career writing fiction...

 

Maybe not for you, but it was for me. I signed off on every Article 15 the company First Sergeant told me to, and that was a fair number.

You are likely correct about the details of Fonda's visit to Fort Carson. I don't remember those details, but now that you've refreshed my memory I do remember something to that effect. I just remember coming face to face with her as I was leaving the stockade.

I really was there, but I don't rely on Wikipedia or Google as much as you do.

 

You let a First Sergeant tell you what to do?

LOL!!!

You were either a bad officer or you were one of those rare officers who understands that the enlisted guys are smarter than the officers...

Yeah, don't really believe you, Colonel.

Where'd you go to law school?