Sen. McSally, ex-Air Force pilot, says officer raped her

Back in those days sailor, senior NCO's ran the US Army. I was a butter bar trying to cooperate and graduate. I succeeded.

Likely it's pretty much the same in the US Navy.

You reject truth as a matter of routine, is my guess.

 

Trying to graduate from what?

Where did you go to law school?

There's a difference between allowing a First Sergeant to tell you what to do (which is what you admitted to) and seeking the advice of one.

The wise officer knows to do the latter...

 

I’ll start by saying I have very little respect for McSally as a pilot. She was a poor mentor, had a terrible attitude and was quick to blame others for her mistakes. I can’t stand her as a person and unfortunately her behavior makes me doubt the legitimacy of her claim.

I have the experience to know better though. The fact that people here are claiming it didn’t happen simply because she never named the rapist are stupid. Rape and assault are very uncomfortable things to discuss and sometimes women don’t want to relive their experience by providing all the details when all they want to do is provide insight on the topic in general.

It’s also equally stupid to simply believe everyone that makes a claim, especially if there is an obvious benefit from it. I don’t think that is McSally in this case and she is not wrong in what she has stated. This may be one of the first times she uses an experience to educate others rather than serve herself.

 

What experience is that?

I don't think anyone has said it didn't happen. What's being said is that there's no reason to simply accept that it did just because she said it did. If it happened, and it would appear as though she's now ready to talk about it, she needs to name her attacker. Otherwise it's nothing more than an unfounded and unsupported allegation.

That's no different than you doubting the legitimacy of her claim...

 

Working with her.

You’re not really perceptive enough to pick up on the fact I didn’t quote anyone specifically therefore not claiming anyone here specifically said it didn’t happen.

She doesn’t need to name anyone nor provide any more details than she wants to. She made a general claim about how assault and rape were prevalent when she first began at the Academy. She’s not wrong and she’s not seeking out justice against anyone. It’s not that hard to understand.

 

What? Senior NCO's don't give any orders to butter bars. They are to obviously be respected for their experience and rank, but even as a butter bar I never came across an NCO that flat out "ran the army".

I have witnessed one E8 lecture an O1 but did so very respectfully and professional.

 

If I had a dollar for every time a crew chief lectured me I’d break even on all the beer I have had to buy them.

NCO’s are obviously very experienced and a lot even have master’s degrees anymore, but any self-respecting officer is not going to take their advice as an order in the rare event an NCO oversteps their bounds.

 

Well, okay, who has?

Then she shouldn't expect to be believed just on the basis of her allegation...

No, she didn't. This is what she said:

She comes across as just another "me too" wannabe...

 

I can think of a number of mutual colleagues that do. You focus on some really pointless details to avoid discussing the actual subject.

Did I say that anywhere? I’m in the same community with less time in service and there is truth to what she says. Not so much anymore except for a few cases I remember on deployments, but definitely in the time period she is discussing. She’s not looking for blood but highlighting an issue that has been experienced by many others. I have no problem with her speaking out about assault.

First post in this thread. Do you have a problem with women speaking out about assault? You seem bothered for no reason.

 

I had a boot ensign as a DIVO on the USS Princeton. This guy believed, since he'd been on active duty for a whole ten months, that he knew more about everything than any enlisted could ever learn.

Me and my Senior Chief sat him down in a room, with just the three of us, and explained otherwise. It wasn't long before the good ensign began to realize that I had E-4's and E-5's who knew more about ASW than he ever would...

 

I have a problem with the whole "me too" thing, and this smacks of that...

 

It’s been around awhile now. It was abused by Hollywood temporarily but the Me Too movement is hardly new and it serves a purpose when it’s not the media flavor of the week.

 

Oh boy, Perry Mason is at it again.....

 

My buddy SWEARS he saw an E8 put an O1 in front leaning rest. No proof of it though

 

Hey, you were the officer who let a First Sergeant tell you what to do, not me.

Officers with no backbone are easily identified...

 

They made me a company commander. When it came to UCMJ matters, I signed the papers I was asked to sign. That's the way it worked in 1969 at Fort Carson.

Maybe you weren't looking behind the scenes? Maybe you pretended it didn't work that way? I don't know and I don't care. That's the way it worked then, and it seemed to work fine in that medical battalion. You can call me a liar if you must, but it won't change anything except my perception of you.

 

Insecure sailors full of manure are also easily identified.

 

I'm not calling you a liar. I'm actually agreeing more and more with what you're saying. I think I misread your previous posts.

I thought you claimed he gave you an order.

 

I consider life to be a learning experience, all the way. After the tremendous experience in officer basic at Fort Sam, Fort Carson was a rude awakening, but I learned a lot. I still say that behind the scenes, senior NCO's run the Army where the rubber meets the road. I was grateful to those men for helping me to adjust.

 

Good NCO's* run the Army

I've had my share of crappy and lazy NCO's. They do nothing for junior enlisted or a unit's morale. Good NCO's are the life line of the military. They teach us everything

 

I'm very proud that a nephew of mine just made E-8 a month or two ago. I'm sure things have changed somewhat in 50 years. He has only 2 years left. He is still intact, not screwed up, and I hope he can make the last 2 OK.

 

When you find one, let me know.

Trust me when I say I possess not an ounce of insecurity, especially when talking to some boot officer who made false claims about what happened at Fort Carson while he was allegedly stationed there and can't even seem to recall what college he graduated from who now claims to have been attached to a medical battalion while "participating" in the UCMJ...

 

A JAG corps with a company commander? In 20 years of service I never heard of that.

Then you were a poor officer. Just signing something without an understand of what the document is, at best, grossly irresponsible.

Then again, there's no real compelling reason to believe you were ever in the military. Your stories are just too haphazard...

 

I cannot tell you how honored I am to have your sage advice Chief. A career sailor offering advice 50 years after the fact about how things are done in the US Army just kinda reminds me of the present POTUS, and maybe the last few POTUS.

You're a hoot Chief! I reckon your ego is bigger than your belly.

 

Some things are the same regardless of service. A JO signing anything put in front of him being a poor officer is one of them.

Although, I must be frank, I've never encountered a JO would couldn't remember where he went to college, or one who claimed to "participate" in the UCMJ while being attached to a medical battalion.

Your stories (and there's no reason to think they're anything but that) are too divorced from reality to believe you've ever worn a uniform...