Settlements liable to turn Israel into an apartheid state

Upon what do you base the strange thought that it's a strange thought?

 

The ignorance never fails to amaze me. England is an Anglican state. The Queen of England is the head of the Anglican church. Vatican City is a Catholic state Numerous South American and European countries use their state apparatus, constitutions and institutions no differently than Israel does with Judaism or Sharia law states do with Islamto entrench their religions as an integral part of the identity of the state.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, Catholic Church in Ireland, Brazil and Argentina are just some examples of Christian sects deeply connected to their states as is Hinduism with India.

The fact you are ignorant of the tie in between the Lutheran church and Germany speaks for itself.

Also your ignorance of Mennonites and Amish speaks for itself. Those two Christian sects ike Jehova's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists
separate themselves from state governments deliberately unlike the history of Catholic, Protestant and other Christian sects or other religions.

 

I suppose we can chalk you up for believing Israel is a Jewish state with remarks like that concerning Israel.

 

Going in and bulldozing houses of one group of people so you can give that land to another group of people ... what do you call it ?

 

Officially they are bulldozed for either being built on prohibited land, without permits, or tunnels placed under them, homes of suicide bombers or terrorists or other illegal things like that. Go ahead, prove they are not and I shall show otherwise.

 

Not surprising as many here seemingly take issue with Israel because it is a Jewish nation while forgeting they have not yet decreed themselves as such formally yet there are many many nations that have a national identity and these are not horrible, only when Jews wish to do so is it.

 

You want me to prove the ridiculous claims you make up for you. LOL

After that please prove that Pluto not made of green cheese.

 

and yet Israel allows Jews to build housing without permits.

 

They are torn down same as the Palestinian ones built without permits.

 

most have not.

Israel provides retro-active legality to Jewish buildings built without a permit.

they have NEVER done this for Arab housing.

this violates the Geneva Conventions.

 

You made the idiot contention not me. Next time don't make idiotic contentions, back them up so I can then show you how wrong you are .

 

If the shoe fits.

Until the US strikes Israel's nuclear sites, there will be no peace in the Middle East. On my list of priorities, peace in the Middle East ranks somewhere between getting a colonoscopy and outlawing parking meters though so I really don't care that much who wins. They could kill each other off for all I really care. We just need to stay out of it or break them both.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that Israel's nuclear weapons is the major obstacle to peace, not the arab unwillingness to make real peace with Israel? Are you actually thinking that if Israel had no nukes the Arab world would immediately extend the hand of friendship, not send armies to finish what they started in 1948?


Really?

 

No. I am suggesting that Israel thinks because it has nuclear weapons, it does not need to make peace.

 

Untrue. Palestine is littered with them- many are government funded.

Of course, there are many reports of Palestinian suicide-houses ramming neoZionist bulldozers. This must be factored into the official Israeli response.

 

Careful with that axe, Eugene. England hasn't been a State since 1707- and the UK is most certainly not Anglican.

 

Your ...er....' evidence '...will be called upon when Israel is called before the international courts for war crimes and offences against humanitarian law- one of which is the destruction of arab dwellings.

 

I feel compelled to now respond to the above response because I think it has nothing to do with this thread and shows how discussions about Israel are used as a pretext to attack and criticize Jews for being Jews.


To start with your question makes no sense. It infers you believe that Jews think they are special to God and that since 6 million of them were wiped out in a genocide they are not.

The question has nothing to do with this thread and is based on ignorance of Judaism as a religion and the story as to the covenant between Jews and God as depicted in the Bible.

Your ignorance as to the meaning of this story does not surprise me however.

In the Bible Jews were said to have agreed to become a collective. In becoming a collective and sharing their identity in a collective, it was then said God would be able to remember them.

That is what the story is about. It is about a covenant from Jews that if they remain a collective, they can be remembered by the God they worship.

Nowhere does it depict this as meaning Jews are thought of as better than non Jews. That is in fact a myth that was generated by anti-semites and to this day it continues and if I challenge it as an anti-semitic myth-a false belief that is designed to insult all Jews.

It has also been revised and used now to suggest it is the basis of Zionism and that Zionism preaches that Jews are superior to others and that is why they want a nation and thus the inter-mixing of a blatantly anti-semitic myth with alleged criticism of Zionism.

Zionism as originally created was not even religious. The vast majority of its founders were in fact trade unionists-socialists who did not believei n God. It defines the Jewish collective identity as a political nationality in need of universal political sufferage as a result of oppression in Europe and the Middle East.

the lack of seperation between Christian beliefs and the governments of Europe, and Islam and the Muslim governments in the Middle east led to the treating of Jews as inferiors not worthy of equality and the justification for continuous slaughter culminating in the holocaust in Eurpe and thousands of years of dhimmitude and oppression in Muslim countries including slaughters culminating in the Mufti of Jerusalem moving to Berlin throughout WW2 living in a house stolen from Jews and broadcasting daily to the Arab world they must wipe out the jewso f the world.

The Mufti in fact conviced Eichman and the Nazi regime to speeden up the slaughter of Jews by using zyclon gas.

Judaism has numerous references in the Old Testament, Talmud and from learned scholars who wrote articles that all religions are to be respected.

Nowhere in Judaism does it permit the conversion of non Jews precisely for that reason. It is Christianity and Islam through forced wars that forced conversion on people not Judaism.

Islam defines Jews as a collective people who are liars (infidels) and not worthy of respect. Jews to this day in Muslim sharia law nations can not make an oath in court, own land, or do business directly with a Muslim-they must do so indirectly through another Muslim.

We are defined as dhimmi, khafir, and unwashed and destined for hell for not following Muhammed.

Christianity preached the passion play and central to its Easter story preached that since Jews did not believe Jesus was the messiah were rightfully condemned to eternity as cursed people and destined as well to hell.

You want to ask how the holocaust started/ Start a thread? Why did you do it in this thread/ How is it relevant to the topic?

How is it you attempt indirectly through the question to suggest Jews are not special to God because they were slaughtered?

Did it ever dawn on you that if Jews died en masse it was because of ignorance, the very ignorance you display in your question?

 

Your latest response makes no sense. Israel has never threatened to use nuclear weapons against anyone in the Middle East. In fact it has delieberately refrained from any reference to nuclear weapons so as not to alarm any Arab nation.

In fact Israel's nuclear reactor was built by the French. It was later used to make nuclear weapons as a deterrent to the Soviet Union who threatened to use nuclear weapons against Israel both in 1967 and then in the Yom Kippur war.

I will say this. Today nuclear missiles are a moot point. A terrorist could use a dirty bomb with radioactive fall out to kill millions. A conventional missile war head would not be needed.

in fact germ awarfare is far more likely. A missile with a toxic chemical is more likely to be used because unlike nuclear weapons it would not leave radioactive blow back and nuclear weapons blow away infrastructure whereas chemicals kliling people do not.

Syria and Iran have toxic weapons they could use against Israel. It could be all the talk of nuclear weapons is a cover for the fear of chemical weapons. How would you or I know?

We read what the governments want the press to print. No one knows the actual or real story as to the weapons any country in the Middle East has.

I personally believe Iran would not use nuclear weapons as it would not want to blow up Jerusalem which it considers a holy site and/or cause blowback that would cause deaths in Mecca. I do believe however it would not hesitate to use chemical weapons. I believe Hezbollah and Iran both have chemical arsenals as does Turkey and Syria and this is a wild-card that no one can predict. I also believe China and Russia both fear attacks from Muslim extremists as well and as much as they suck and blow to Iran and Syria openly, behind the scenes they have a direct interest in assuring Israel exists if for no other reason it acts as a buffer to Muslim extremists.

Its not an accident China gets so much of its military weapons from Israel with the US well aware of this and making money off it as the weapons being sold are jointy developed with the Americans.

 

You can stop right there because you are wrong. Every time any discussions of anything comes up, Israeli's are all "well we will nuke them". Take away the nukes and you take away Israel anti-peace attitude because they do not have a Final Solution as a crutch.

 

I am going to try again respond to an ealier post Phoebe Bump made which I believe has to be responded to and I did not have a chance to respond to until now.

In a response to me where I asked Ms. Bump where she felt she had the right to dictate to Israelis or me what the fate of Israel should be when discussing American foreign policy support of Israel she responded and I quote:

"Your Jewish children are putting my American children at risk. That's where I get off, sonny."

"I have a right to be arrogant and presumptuous. You are asking (and receiving) my help, not the other way around. I don't owe you anything"

I believe the above words illustrate a response that attacks and criticizes all Jewish people. American KJewish people and specifically Jewish children using the pretext it is related to criticizing American foreign policy.

I believe it is an excellent example how people feel they are entitled to insult Jews let alone attack Jewish children under the pretext of political debate and that as a Jewish person I have a moral responsibility on this board to come on it, question the above words and ask the moderator to either remove those words or late me challenge them as inciting hatred against all Jews and Jewish children.

Ms. Bump in fact blames Jewish children for endangering American child. I believe the contents of those comments are deliberately hateful and illogical to such an extreme the post should have been removed or at least that comment.

If Jewish children are being attacked in Israel by terrorists, that of course does not endanger American children.

It is also absurd to state that if the Americans did not support Israel, terrorists would not attack the US and the sole reason the US is targetted for terror attacks is for supporting Israel.

The United States is a target of terrorist attacks because it supports through its oil industry Arab regimes considered unfriendly and the enemy of extremist Muslim terrorists. The US's strategic interests with Israel are no different than its support of saudi arabia and the Gulf states for example.

Demonizing Jewish children is inappropriate in any discussion.

Trying to suggest Israel has asked for her support or I have or any jewish person has is delusional.

If the US supports Israel it does so because it finds it advantageous not because Jewish children control its government.

This attack on Jews under the pretext of debating foreign policy is odious.

 

At least she acknowledges that Israel has a Jewish identity!

 

Of course, it has an arab identity as well.

 

Moon no one would disagree Israel has an Arab identity, Druze identity, Beduin identity, Christian identity, Bahaii identity. It has many identities. It has a feminist identity, a gay identity, an existential one, an atheist one, an agnostic one, and some Israelis define themselves using various interpretations of Jewisg religion or even Taoism or Buddism which are both quite compatible with Jewish thought . Israelis who are Jewish might also identify with nations where they may have come from. Felashies have a unique identity, so do certain African Jews or Chinese or Indian Jews. Mizrahi or Tsfardic Jews retain Arabic language and cooking traditions. Its a complex mix.

So you have a point?

As Ronstar stated far earlier the fact that Israel is a Jewish state does not mean it does not have other identities or permit other identities.

The fact it has an Arab identity by the way is inconsistent with your subjective name calling that Israel is facist

Facist and racist states do not have laws that are enshrined in its legal system and recognized by its Supreme Court that allows non Jews to vote, have their own family and religious courts, the right to own land no different thn Jews and the right to be treated in the same hospitals.

Tell me one Arab state that provides the rights to Jews Israel does to its Arabs. Show me one example of how blacks in South Africa and Arabs in Israel live the same way You can not and that is the point. You are quick to throw out the rhetoric but you can't prove any apartheid.

The segregation that does occur is not based on race and never was. Its based on security issues. Anyone of any religion or ethnicity in Israel if they do not serve in the IDF, will find it hard to get work in certain sectors without security clearance they get from being in the IDF. That has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with the practical reality of living in a country in a constant state of war.

You engage in an absurd double standard where you justify Arab apartheid under Sharia law but claim Israel is apartheid. Not once have you had the courage to acknowledge that dhimmitude and sharia law create an apartheid state and force non Muslims into second class citizenship and require they live in designated areas.

In your world you are so blinded by your hatred of Israel you can not for one moment admit reality.

The reality is that Arab Israeli live with the highest standard of any Arab in the Middle East and have made it clear they will not renounce their Israeli citizenship. That is a fact you can not disprove and skip over time and time again.

The fact is non Jews, in fact Arab Israelis, Beduin Israelis, Druze Israelis have fought for the IDF and have been their courage and you had no idea how to respond to that.

The fact is Israel as is the case with any nation its size is straining to find room and work for its people.

No one claims Israel is perfect. Of course it has its issues with trying to assimilate so many different kinds of Jews with different cultures, physical features, ethnicities, languages, religious and political views. It has gender and same sex issues. It has all the issues the Western world has. The differerence between it though and the Arab world is its government is open-its publically held accountable in the news, by the media, by over 125 human righs organizations that are Israeli and defend non Israelis.

The fact is it permits open freedom of speech. Arab Israelis are elected and have openly called for the disbanding of Israel.

It is a democracy. It allows things for its Muslims no Arab country will allow for their Jews. That is a fact. Not one Arab country can claim it provides rights to Jews in their countries the way Israel does for its Muslims.

You want to talk apartheid? You complain Israel will not take in "Palestinians"? Interesting you are silent on the reason it can not is because it had to provide room to more Jews displaced by the Arab world then Palestinians ever displaced in the war of 1949. That you skip over.

You also skip over the fact that a Jew is not allowed citizenship in Jordan the first illegally created Palestinian state that took over 75% of Palestine without proper negotiations with both Arabs and Jews and was done in bad faith and was admitted to have been created illegally by Churchill in his memoirs. The very Prime Minister of Britain Lloyd George said the same thing.

You skip over the fact there is already a Palestinian state in Jordan and that the Arab League of Nations never recognized Israel as a Jewish state and is it any wonder?

You continue to deny and pretend Israel is not Jewish. Next Barbra Streisdan is what a Catholic?

 

*** "Ad nauseam is a Latin term for a discussion that has continued so long that it has continued "to [the point of] nausea".[1][2] For example, the sentence "This topic has been discussed ad nauseam" signifies that the topic in question has been discussed extensively, and that those involved in the discussion have grown tired of it."

Explained above. You are most welcome BTW. (BTW means 'by the way')