Sheriff Joe Arpaio research team finds Obama birth record definitely forged.

Discussion in 'Other/Miscellaneous' started by Pollycy, Jul 19, 2012.

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  1. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. There was abundant tangible evidence to support the tragedy of the Holocaust: sworn testimony by thousands on both sides of the conflict and the victims themselves, film footage, thousands of photographs, and on and on. No one who defended the terrible reality of the Holocaust needed to go into hateful hysterics and start screaming at anyone that they were "idiots", "lunatics", "kooks", "morons", etc., etc. Ample, tangible, easily examined EVIDENCE of the Holocaust was piled high for all the world to see and examine to any degree that anyone wished. No one was told, "Hey, you have to take our word for it, and besides, the government SAYS so...." The unsavory aroma of suspicious bull(*)(*)(*)(*) fills the nostrils when you get that treatment and only equal amounts of fresh air can get rid of it....

    You know, it's funny, Dan. To this moment I have not heard one plausible explanation from the Obama camp for constructing a complicated, layered software image of his long-form Certificate of Live Birth instead of simply making a direct copy of the thing such as anyone could make on the cheapest copy machine in the world, and then releasing that to the world. THIS is exactly the kind of thing that gives "conspiracy theories" life, Dan. And only the unvarnished, unadorned plain truth can kill them! Do you ever ask yourself WHY approximately 20% of Americans don't believe Obama has been truthful with us about his origins and his past? It certainly isn't because he has been as forthcoming with solid, incontrovertible evidence as there is for the reality of the Holocaust....
     
  2. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    What we really don't have is any motive for Obama to not release a copy of exactly what the Hawaii Dept of Health has provided. The Obama Election Committee furnished the actual 2007 COLB to FactCheck.org to physically examine and they confirmed that it was the official document from the Hawaii Dept of Health. It was an Official Birth Certificate from Hawaii that established Obama's natural born citizenship which the Hawaii Dept of Health has publically stated is a fact.

    The so-called "long form" COLB contained exactly the same information that was on the 2007 COLB and the Hawaii Dept of Health had previously stated that the information on the "short form" and "long form" were identical.

    There was no motive for Obama to alter the "long form" COLB because it matched the "short form" COLB. It is obvious to virtually everyone except a "birther bigot" that both versions of Obama's COLB's were simply scanned and posted on the internet.
     
  3. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

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    This is not true. There have been a total of 148 lawsuits and/or ballot challenges filed against Obama. Not a single one of them was ever a criminal case. Googling the term only results in finding a lot of "Birther fan fiction"... but no actual criminal actions.
     
  4. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

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    Absolutely... in fact in several cases they have proven to be the very same people.
     
  5. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

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    Other than because a lot of software programs do that automatically? Do you know anything about digital images and the World Wide Web? Anything?
     
  6. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Pollcy, I think you are deliberately acting ignorant, and I don't really know why. So I am going to reply in three parts- to give you the 'plausible' answer you are looking for.

    Part 1
    Aaron Klein is a writer for WND, and here is his explanation, based upon what experts hired by WND told him:
    Now, the individual who wrote this [Ivan Zatkovich] is a principal consultant for eComp Consultants. He has had years of experience testifying in federal criminal court, civil litigation, so what he said is several things: first of all, that "a certificate was produced by the State of Hawaii and then copied onto green safety paper, which is normal procedure." Then he says, "The green copy paper was then scanned, presumably by the White House, to produce a PDF document.” They can actually get to the exact time and date that this document was scanned; that it is consistent with when the White House said that they first requested the document from the State of Hawaii.

    Now, interesting, there are modifications on the document, in specific that there are some layers, but also white halo. He says that all of the modifications to the PDF document can be identified and are consistent with someone enhancing the readability of the document, so in other words, it seems that somebody in the White House did make an enhancement to the document so perhaps, so that people can read it. He said that “there is no specific evidence of how or why any content has been changed, but there is clear evidence,” and this is interesting, “that the document was changed, but very likely enhanced so that we can better read it.” But even that does show that there is a part of the document that was changed. This is not conspiracy; this is some of the nation’s foremost document experts.

    But let’s put that aside.[22:03] It would have to be a massive conspiracy, and I don’t want to get into that, that the State of Hawaii was involved in, in order to fake this document. I believe that this document is absolutely real. There is no evidence that it is not. And there would have to be a grand, crazy conspiracy for the State of Hawaii to be involved in faking a birth certificate. I don’t want to even get into that on this program.

    And actually, the bottom line is that now Obama has done his part to show that he was born in Hawaii. The onus is no longer on Obama to show that. The onus is on somebody else. If somebody else can produce conclusive evidence that Obama was born somewhere else, so that this birth certificate is not real, that’s a different story, but that hasn’t happened, so we have to accept that Obama was born, and this is the evidence as of now, in Hawaii.[22:50]

    So the answer of the expert hired by WND is that the document was scanned and used technology to make the document easier to read.

    What is not plausable about that?
     
  7. thevsj

    thevsj New Member

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    the GOP wouldn't let AZ keep the President off the ballots.. it would be an instant (D) win if they did... every (I) out there would shun that kind of extremism and vote (D)..
     
  8. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    x2_5c11909.jpg
    And if you wanted to see a 'direct copy' of the birth certificate seen by the room full of reporters, well reporter Savannah Guthrie supplied just that
    http://lockerz.com/s/96540937

    Simple photo taken with her phone camera. And what does it show?

    That the original certified Birth certificate that was shown to reporters and a copy of which was posted online, and which was verified by the State of Hawaii shows that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

    What is not 'plausible' about this?
     
  9. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Okay now lets go to your 'copy machine' scenario.

    That is essentially what Obama did when he asked Hawaii to photocopy the original, certify it, and then showed the photocopy to a room full of reporters. They even got to hold it and feel the raised seal. Then the copy was scanned in order to be placed on the internet for all voters to see.

    Now instead, if the Administration had just photocopied the photocopy- what then? Who would ever see those photocopies Pollcy? The reporters had already seen the original certified copies- they didn't need to see photocopies of the certified copy.

    So what would anyone do with photocopies? How would anyone release 'photocopies' to the world- mail the photocopies to newspapers? Make 300 million photocopies and mail them to every household in America?

    Obama did every rational thing in order to put this issue to bed. He got a certified photocopies of the original, showed them to reporters, allowed them to see, handle and photograph them, and then scanned and posted it online.

    And the State of Hawaii confirmed that the copy released was authentic and that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Anyone who chooses to refuse to believe the information at this will refuse anything and everything else too.
     
  10. thevsj

    thevsj New Member

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    they've answered this insanity for 4 years now.. how many more times should they keep saying "it's bunk" 50 more? 100 more? 100,000,000? the fact is no matter how many times President Obama replies to this insanity, no matter how many people 'in the know' tell you it's all crap, you're not going to let it go.. none of you birthers are. You've decided there is this grand conspiracy that encompasses dozens and dozens of people.. because of course, the more people in a conspiracy the better..

    I admit, when the 'birther' story 1st came about I was like WTF? How couldn't I be, it was the 1st time it's ever come up.. we've always all just assumed a POTUS candidate was allowed to be a candidate.. I don't ever remember wondering if the Bush (dad or son) birth cert was falsified? or the Clintons, Gore,Reagan,Dole.. I don't think we've even looked to see if Romney's is valid.. it's just not something that's ever been in question before.. so of course I was like "Hey.. what?"..

    what convinced me it was all birther BS is Hilary Clinton.. do any of you birthers really think HRC, Bubba and the Clinton machine would have let this slide if it was true? There is some part of your mind that said "Oh yea, Hill and Bill just let it slide because they didn't really want the White House"?

    right... sure...Of course the Clinton machine would just let it go... c'mon, what more do you need?

    and btw, just because a 'reputable' source prints someone's crazy press conference and ideas, doesn't validate that insanity..it's just the reputable source saying "holy crap, this guy is nuts".. They also reported that whackonut pastor down here in Florida, didn't mean they believed in him either..
     
  11. scott e.

    scott e. New Member

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    i think someone got to zatkovich. obama could have ended this a long time ago, but chooses not to. it seems to contrast transparency.
     
  12. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

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    Here is Zatkovich's report, dated two days after the release of the long form, and prior to the dishonest edition of his comments that appeared in WND. Exactly when do you hallucinate "someone" got to him?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Zatkovich-Obama-PDF-report-final.pdf

    Obama released his birth certificate... twice. The first time within three days of first being asked.
    <<< Mod Edit: Flamebait >>>
     
  13. scott e.

    scott e. New Member

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    lol add 3
    :dog:
     
  14. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Oh let me respond to this one:

    Apparently the same person got to not only Zatkovich- but Klein from WND- and the two other researchers WND paid to research this:

    Aaron Klein:
    What [the three forensic investigators] told me first of all is that the image online can never, really, fully be verified. You actually have to look at the original document to verify that it’s real, to get technical, but the bottom line is this: let me read to you from the report. This is a twelve-page report commissioned by this program and WND, for example from eComputer Consultants, but all of the reports were essentially the same. Now, the individual who wrote this [Ivan Zatkovich] is a principal consultant for eComp Consultants. He has had years of experience testifying in federal criminal court, civil litigation, so what he said is several things: first of all, that "a certificate was produced by the State of Hawaii and then copied onto green safety paper, which is normal procedure." Then he says, "The green copy paper was then scanned, presumably by the White House, to produce a PDF document.” They can actually get to the exact time and date that this document was scanned; that it is consistent with when the White House said that they first requested the document from the State of Hawaii.

    So Scott- who do you think got to WND, so that they paid 3 consultants to right reports on this- and then decided never to publish any of those reports?

    The funny thing is that Birthers complain about Obama hiding stuff, but Birthers are the kings at concealing things-

    WND commissioned three reports by actual experts- and hid their results.
    Trump hired private investigators to investigate Obama in Hawaii and hid the results.
    Corsi said he had a 'mole' inside the Hawaii Department of Health who was going to provide him more information- hidden.
    Arpaio said he has three persons of interest- all unnamed
    And why is Mike Zullo refusing to release his supposed “1961 vital statistics instruction manual” and why is he keeping the phone interview with Verna K. Lee hidden?

    One consistant thing about Birthers is that they sure like to keep stuff hidden....
     
  15. scott e.

    scott e. New Member

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    good questions all jeff, and all good reasons to stay tuned. i'm just as curious about it all as you are.
     
  16. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    Good- put them up on your website then. Here I will put them in the form of a question:

    Why did WND commission three reports by actual experts- and hide their results?
    Why did Trump hired private investigators to investigate Obama in Hawaii and hide the results?
    Why did Corsi say he had a 'mole' inside the Hawaii Department of Health who was going to provide him more information- and never reveal him?
    Why did Arpaio say he has three persons of interest- all unnamed
    And why is Mike Zullo refusing to release his supposed &#8220;1961 vital statistics instruction manual&#8221; and why is he keeping the phone interview with Verna K. Lee hidden?

    One consistant thing about Birthers is that they sure like to keep stuff hidden....
     
  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    If that is an actual photo taken of the long-form BC taken with a phone camera then that is very plausible, and believeable. If that is an unaltered, unmodified image then it is every bit as authentic and reliably true to the original document as though it were copied by "the least expensive copy machine in the world". Although the YouTube video you referenced was no longer available for viewing, I really think we are making progress here. I appreciate your efforts to reach out in a very civil, logical way here, especially after all we've gone through.

    It has never been my purpose to unfairly criticize Obama -- only to get at the bedrock facts. And, yes, although I know a good deal more about computer hardware than I do about software, I am no neophyte in the software arena, either. I build my own computers, load my own software stack, and help a lot of friends, family, and acquaintences with theirs. I do have a fairly crappy camera on my phone, and I'm conducting some experiments now with it.

    One other thing, I've really got to admit that these questions you asked (below) were some of the more interesting and thought-provoking I've seen posed in the entire birther/believer debate:

    Why did WND commission three reports by actual experts- and hide their results?
    Why did Trump hired private investigators to investigate Obama in Hawaii and hide the results?
    Why did Corsi say he had a 'mole' inside the Hawaii Department of Health who was going to provide him more information- and never reveal him?
    Why did Arpaio say he has three persons of interest- all unnamed
    And why is Mike Zullo refusing to release his supposed &#8220;1961 vital statistics instruction manual&#8221; and why is he keeping the phone interview with Verna K. Lee hidden?

    I also want to know answers to these questions, because I want everybody on both sides of the argument to lay all their cards on the table!

    More later. Thanks again.
     
  18. scott e.

    scott e. New Member

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    why is there a "high resolution" version ? i'd like to see them all side by side with the one in the vault. perhaps a hundred other certificates from the batch or the era.

    are there other similarities or anomalies ??

    what obama did on 4/27/11 was to start a slow chase. now that the people know that there is a definitive answer in-the-vault-in-hawaii. the people will want to see it the more their government says no, it's human nature. just a feeling i have. i'm reporting myself to attackwatch.com for making ridicule of/with our government.
     
  19. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    I am sure you really would like to see them all side by side.

    Luckily for the privacy of the citizens of Hawaii, State law doesn't allow you to go snooping through their private documents.
     
  20. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    What youtube video? Seriously I never knowingly refer to any Youtube video's.

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540937

    Snapshot of the BC- with a note from Ms. Guthrie

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/12/2011-the-year-of-the-long-form/

    Savannah Guthrie
    @SavannahGuthrie
    "And here is the wider shot I took of the birth certificate"

    And here is another:

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540721

    I saw the certified copy of long-form POTUS birth certificate today, felt the raised seal, snapped this pic

    She also has a lot of fun photo's showing her at work at NBC News.

    And of course we have the State of Hawaii:

    Frequently Asked Questions about Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II

    On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.

    I don't know how much more could possibly be done.
     
  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    The YouTube video was embedded in one of the links, but not of pivotal importance. I did explore the "controversy" about "Hawaii" and "Huwaii" supposedly being on two different images of the same document but found no merit in the contention that it was evidence of any wrongdoing -- only poor resolution in one image. I am still trying to understand why the photograph of the BC document appears to have been shot on a page of a large book, with the resultant curvature of the page because of the spine of the book, and yet the background of the photo shows a totally flat "checked" background characteristic of that we see on bank checks and other documents to prevent erasures from going undetected. I'm aware that I'm not the first person to notice this and that there are probably hundreds of links to more stories about what the phenomenon is, and why.

    I'm probably going to look into it further, mostly in an effort to understand it all, but we're only about 100 days away from the election. As I've said before, even if the man weren't born in Hawaii, it is way too late to "do" anything about it now. I'm opposed to him now for the same reasons as always: his policies, his actions, and his record. Nothing matters now but getting this broken country fixed and out of the danger of insolvency it is headed toward under Obama, regardless of where he was born. So, for now, for whatever it matters, the assumption must be made that Barack Obama, Jr. was indeed born in Hawaii, until or unless someone, Arpaio or whoever, PROVES otherwise. Onward!
     
  22. scott e.

    scott e. New Member

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    this is sort of the anti antibirther site, i find it helpful to organise my thoughts and questions. of course wnd has just about all of it, the stories and concerns about obama's story (stories).

    http://theobamafile.com/
     

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